More News on Sonics Lawsuit

He said, she said, email, text message, what does it matter.

All of these owners knew Bennett when he was with the Spurs. Stern and the other owners had a problem with Seattle, bad lease, bad arena, and a bad owner. They wanted someone to come in and either get a new arena deal and lease done, or get them out of town. Bennett was willing to take the heat. This thing is not done yet.

We can pick this apart all we want but a Federal Judge is going to get the next ball rolling, so all we can do is sit back and wait. It doesn't matter how many so called high power lawyers throw their two cents in, no one know for sure how this will end.

What's really annoying about all this is that I heard from two people very closely connected to Tom Ward and Bill Cameron last spring, on two separate occasions and from two people who don't even know each other, that they were fine with keeping the Sonics in Seattle. Tom Ward said he was planning on flying up to games, and both he and Bill Cameron apparently said they thought having a team in Seattle would be good for business, as they could make new contacts. I was told the Tom Ward info right before the legislature adjourned and the Bill Cameron info was given to me in late spring or early summer. So, I know that regardless of what they hoped, they were prepared to stay in Seattle.

To my way of thinking, Schultz is behaving no more ethically than he is accusing Bennett et al of doing. He had already had discussions with several cities about moving the Sonics. He knew, when he allowed the one year time frame to be put in the side letter that the owners clearly were thinking about moving the team unless the got a new arena and a good lease. It should have been no concern of his if they sold the team if they got a new arena in Seattle, because his purported concern was keeping the team there. Of course, if he'd already had discussions with other cities, I would assume that implies either intent to or interest in moving the team. He's said nothing during this entire process. If he actually thought Bennett presented his arena plan to the legislature too late, or if he thought the cost of the arena was too high, why wasn't he calling Bennett telling him so. Why wasn't he calling Stern complaining? Why wasn't he giving interviews in the Seattle newspapers? He's had the extra $150 million from Bennett for almost two years now, and if he can manage to get the team back, he'll get to sell it again for at least that much. He has nothing to lose, but it's not ethical behavior. He knows Bennett would have kept the team in Seattle if an arena had been built, because he would have to have done so by NBA rules.

One thing that really bothers me about many of these posts is that I am hearing people say it does not bother them if they lied. I would like to say that I want a team here very much. If I have to sell my soul to get a team then it is not worth it. It is sad that we have people professing to the world a disclaimer that they have no problem if they lied. What does that say about us? Yes, we are all human and make mistakes but if you make a policy to say it is okay to lie just so we get a team then that really says something about how desperate we are.

I want a team based on our merits, not on our deception and lies. It troubles me that we have those in our own group that are openly admitting that it is okay.

Maybe I just grew up in a different generation.

Paul

You know I would normally agree with you, but playing nice will not get us a pro team and I personally don't care how they get it here minus drinking baby's blood.

If this were most everyday life kinda thing, I am 100% with you, but if we have to lie, cheat and steal to get a team here, I am ok with it and you know what, in a couple years so will everyone else, no one will even remember or care.

There is a thing called integrity and you are admitting that you have none. If you are willing to tell the world you have no integrity, then it is hard to believe anything you say. Your statements make us sound worse than those we are bashing in Seattle. I for one do not want something that we have to "lie, cheat and steal" to get. With an attitude like that there is no wonder we keep getting criminals in political office.

Paul

I agree with Nathaniele, however I think once we get the team we need to get Coburn and Waxman together to shift the focus from steroids to sports subsidies....focus, as (omg can't believe I am doing this) the seattle guy says on "more important things".

I just really want a team, and as the old saying goes, nice guys always finish last. Do you think the fans of Baltimore cared how they got the Ravens? Beyond cleavland fans hating the Ravens, does anyone else really give 2 cents how the Ravens got their team?

You are right, I wouldn't want this in politics, which is one reason I can't vote for a repbulican again (at least this time around).

I don't condone lying, stealing and cheating, but this is big business and lets face it, the biggest wrong of this whole mess isn't the possibility that they lied to get the Sonics, its that they got "Caught" lying! If these guys hadn't left a paper trail we wouldn't even be talking about this and none would be the wiser!

If we just sit around playing nice waiting for a team, its gonna be 100 years before we see one and I think situation is a lot different than normal life and you can't apply this situation to others and at least I am being honest about it and not being all PC.

-You are right, I wouldn't want this in politics, which is one reason I can't vote for a repbulican again


There is MINIMAL difference between republicans and democrats in these regards. Good grief..Al McCaffery and Jim Roth are allegedly these super progressive Dems and they BOTH strongly endorse the "corporate welfare" stuff, all the while folks like Sally Kernservative and Mike Reynolds say no to it....

There is a difference between playing nice versus condoning lying and announcing it to the world. I want a team as much as anyone else and I am not saying they lied. I just really cannot believe that someone would openly announce to the world that they do not care if they lied as long as we get the fruits of that lying. Take the team out of the equation. I am talking about honesty an being worthy of trust. You are saying that it does not matter. This is reminiscent of the "Character doesn't matter" argument of the Bill Clinton era. Character does matter. If a person does not tell the truth then it does not matter what they say because you cannot trust them. It is a moral issue of right and wrong. It is not okay to lie to get what you want period. Come on people! Stand for what is right!

This is a character issue that I am talking about. If Oklahoma City has to lower itself to telling the world that character does not matter so the world will think we are "Big League" then this is a sad day in America.

Paul

I think we are looked down upon by the country for being so naive as to think that Clinton was more of a liar than any of the other guys that whats going on with this stuff. Turn off your Fox news for a day champ and read a book or something.

Paul, lying is part of the business world. Transactions occur at an arm's length, and while not necessarily ethical, the behavior is commonplace.

This NBA stuff is a game for big boys. Calls to "stand for what is right!" just sound silly at this point. This has nothing to do with wrong and right. It has everything to do with money, power and prestige.

This grab for the team may have been a bit Machiavellian, but what sports team relocation has ever been done with good feelings on both sides?

I don't think the OKC ownership group really lied more than similarly situated people in similar situations do. They were just dumb about statements they made which were subject to discovery. The ownership group is generally arrogant and not used to being second-guessed or questioned... or else, they just don't give a damn about people in Seattle feeling all butthurt about being lied to.

You would have to be severely mentally challenged not to have been able to read the tea leaves from the moment Clay Bennett emerged as the owner of the Supersonics. Acting shocked and upset at this juncture just comes off as disingenuous. Particularly when you're making appeals like "Come on people! Stand for what is right!"

-- and you thought you could win us Okies over by maligning Clinton.. I have to admit.. I like you a little better for that, but it didn't cinch your argument

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It's a friendlier OKCTalk!

I have to admit that if McClendon, Bennett et al were hard core liberal Dems, then all of this wouldn't be as much of an issue. I'd be happy to say why I believe that, but I am sure most people here understand these things without me writing a long dissertation that maybe one extremely bored person would bother reading.

i'm interested in hearing more about these man killing lawnmowers!

I'm with Paul. Situational ethics don't cut it. I guess I'll finish last.

I don't understand where lying is the issure here. No matter what was said about moving the team to OKC as a reason to buy the team, an effort was made to fulfill the contract. Bennett spent money and time to get the powers that be to approve a new arena. Those people didn't have any interest in spending money on the Sonics in order to keep them. Bennett gave them a year to change their mind and told them he would move the team if nothing could be worked out. Where is the lie? He did just what he promised to do. Now people are calling him a liar because behind close doors he and his partners where looking at options including moving to OKC (which they went into this in the first place hoping it would work out to do just that). Be this as it may, they tried to fulfill the contract made with Schultz.

I would agree that to lie and cheat to get something is not what we want to put our hat on. I just don't think you can call it lying or cheating in the way Bennett handled the attempt to keep the team in Seattle. Did he have other hopes? You bet he did. But he did all that he promised in the contract.

BTW, Seattle is a nice city and one that I have enjoyed going to. I couldn't live there due to the weather. I think they have the highest suicide rate in the country. Most of that attributed to the weather. But I digress....

Actually, I believe there was no way the owners could completely tell the truth and fulfill their promise to Howard Schultz. When Schultz put the team on the market, he'd already been looking at selling to owners in other cities. Obviously, if possible, he wanted to keep the team in Seattle. But, by insisting on the one year effort, Bennett et al were telling Schultz they only were willing to keep the team in Seattle if they got a new arena. Does anyone really know if they promised Schultz more than that? That's what the letter says. It doesn't say it was the wish of their heart to keep the team in Seattle. It doesn't say they were going to keep the team in Seattle no matter what. It said they would make a good faith effort to get an arena built, which would, by definition, require that the team stay in Seattle.

Every public action by the Sonics owners was designed to get an arena built, which was what they had promised to do. Every interview indicated they intended to stay in Seattle if they got an arena, and they continue to give interviews to that effect into the fall of 2007. There are contradictory e-mails that exist, some of which show that they were accepting of the fact that the team would stay in Seattle if an arena was built. I think contradictory e-mails are easy to explain. They had to act in public as if their greatest wish was to get an arena built, in order to have any hopes of accomplishing that task. Telling the truth would have violated the agreement with Schultz far more seriously than private e-mails.

We were all excited when Bennett bought the team. We all thought the team would be moving to OKC. So did all the people in Seattle. Suddenly, we heard the interview that told us that the team would be staying in Seattle if an arena was built. But, everyone knew it was a long shot, even the people in Seattle. So, did a "woohoo, Oklahoma City Sonics" equivalent exultation equal a deliberate plan to move the team? Or, was it simply a quick impulsive statement that was replaced by the reality of Tom Ward saying he might consider selling if an arena was built and "work on a team for OKC"? Were the e-mails after the legislature adjourned refusing to consider an arena plan also part of a diabolical plot, or were they simply the expression of frustration with the political leaders and process in Seattle.

The truth was known by Howard Schultz, regardless of his current law suit. He knew that if an arena was built, the Sonics would stay in Seattle. He knew that if it was not, the team would move. It doesn't matter if the owners hoped an arena would never get built, because their hopes didn't matter. All that mattered was what action or lack thereof was taken by the city of Seattle. The city determined the fate of the Sonics, not Clay Bennett.

Should this deal fall through for some reason. Or if by some remote chance the courts rule in favor of the previous owners, thereby allowing the Sonics to remain in Seattle, they will become the City with the second highest suicide rate in the Country.

That was an excellent post, Betts...