Just when I thought you couldn't get dumber or more outlandish, you come through. Now ODOT is involved in surpressing voter turnout on streets that are not under the control of ODOT. I hope all of you following Tom understand how stupid he sounds.

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Oklahoma City - The surprise your family has been looking for.

I thought the same thing. Everything is a conspiracy. I'm surprised he didn't come right out and mention something about the african-american voters that wouldn't be able to get to their voting locations because of it.

BNSF's former Santa Fe Red Rock Subdivision line -- the north-south line elevated through downtown Oklahoma City -- is one of the most congested in the nation, conservatively reported to carry 40+ daily fast freights.

There's only one reason the BNSF would assent to diminishing the capacity and destroying the independence of the Chickasha and Sooner Subdivisions: Its management today believes it has no interest in operating those divisions in the future. Other operators will likely operate them -- so, BNSF is pleased to accept making their historically independent passage through OKC dependent on its own central dispatching. All this to get one mile across the N. Canadian River.

Moreover, traffic on the "Packingtown Lead" is much more vulnerable, traversing previously grade-separated arterial street crossings exclusively at-grade.

This is simply unacceptable -- obviously running counter to the railroads' own standing policy. You never (never) substitute at grade crossings for longstanding underpasses or overpasses. Its also very unwise from the standpoint of roadway safety and mobility, especially as regards emergency passage.

"Heck, the railroad doesn't even want the rail line," the uncritical thinkers repeat. What does the railroad want -- when it no longer gives a hoot about a given marketplace?

During the buildup to the last round of Base Closing and Realignment proceedings, the Joint Chiefs clearly indicated that, in future BRAC rounds, the smaller bases with the more redundant missions that "stay" will be those with the best quality of life for military personnel. Many US military families have lived in Europe, Britain and Japan -- and miss those places' rail services when they come home.

This is only one aspect of the trouble ODOT is trying to bring down on the entire state -- all for four miles of expressway it can neither afford to build nor maintain -- while the "very special few" chirp their thoughtless approval.

Word from media sources now reminds us that ODOT had promised to reopen Penn and Shields before they shut down other arterial streets. They're plainly feeling the heat -- apparently hoping they "have us all sufficiently on the hook" that we can't do much about it.

Only time will tell.

TOM ELMORE

Quality of life for workers at Tinker might be improved with light rail, but freight is certainly not a quality of life issue to anyone but the most obsessed of rail enthusiasts (if that's what you're saying, because you lost me).

Now, a beatiful iconic Central Park, with the surrounding residential, hotel and retail development it might bring, would set Oklahoma City ahead of where it currently stands when thinking about quality of life. We need to erase the "dustbowl" stereotype that exists in the minds of most people not familiar with Oklahoma City. Green is the antithesis of dust, is it not? We need people to think of green when they think of Oklahoma City. In addition, what we're doing with downtown residential housing will help. Having an NBA team will help. Having light rail, or certainly a great mass transit system of some sort would help. Downtown retail, more hotels and restaurants would help. More museums would help. Being able to walk to the river for a concert at the ampitheatre or to ride the ferris wheel (that is where it's going, isn't it?) would help. None of these things exist in a vacuum. There has to be synergy, and you cannot concentrate on one to the exclusion of the others.

It's clear, Tom, you love rail, and know more about it than anyone here. You don't need to keep proving that. But, there are other things as, if not more, important to the development of our urban core. You cannot ignore them and expect us to agree, We live here. You don't. We have to care about more than transportation, because there's so much more to our lives here than getting from point A to point B.

BRAC and rail...yet another stretch I shouldn't be surprised at. Rail works in Europe because everything is so compact. It doesn't work as well in a sprawling metro like OKC. And FYI Tom - you will find that the overwhelming majority of the Tinker folks live on the east side..or Moore. Yes the come from all directions, but the greatest concentration is near the base.

You seem to be running out of excuses for why we should realign I-40 for Union Station. You've covered everything except why not using rail is "who shot Kennedy". Or maybe Nessie has a summer home underneath it or something. Oh I know, Hoffa is buried in the deck!

What is the current status (today) of the I-40 project? I know they ran into some other 'natural' holdups, like the acid pit they found...costing more $$$, but is the project moving again or what? I know the original plan had the earliest completion date as what, 2010, or somewhere around that time? Can't believe that it wasn't done at least ten years ago, but thats out the window now.

Even the original plan of '2010' makes me shake my head and look at the date again.

Does anyone know what kind of preventative action they are taking on the existing bridge to prevent another MSP disaster?

http://newsok.com/fade-to-gray-state...adlines_widget

Read, also, so far only in the print edition, OKLAHOMAN business writer Don Mecoy's "TRADE TALK" column article, "DEFENSE SPENDING HELPS BUOY STATE IN ROUGH TIMES"

Here's a transcription of the last paragraph:

I had lunch with a banker recently who offered a blunt anecdotal assessment of the economic impact of defense spending in one community. "Have you been to Lawton lately?" he asked. "You wouldn't recognize the place."

It is a 2-2 count and here comes the wind up and the pitch. Whoa, Tom got all of that one and drove into left field....

What does Union Station have to do with anything in that news non-story?

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Oklahoma City - The surprise your family has been looking for.

Borg was born in Södertälje, Sweden. Before he was 21, Björn Rune Borg had registered feats that would set him apart as one of game's greats--and before he was 26, the golden-locked Swede was through. No male career of the modern era has been so brief and bright.

Tennis is filled with instances of precocious achievements and championships, but none is as impressive as those of Borg. Just before his 18th birthday Borg was the youngest winner of the Italian Championship, and two weeks later he was the youngest winner of the French Championship (a record lowered by countryman Mats Wilander, 17, in 1982, and subsequently by Michael Chang, a younger 17 in 1989). Eighteen months later, at 19, he climaxed a Davis Cup record winning streak of 19 singles by lifting Sweden to the 1975 Cup for the first time in a 3-2 final-round victory over Czechoslovakia. His Cup singles streak of 33 was intact at his retirement, still a record.

During a nine-year career, Borg won 41 percent of the Grand Slam singles tournaments he entered (11 of 27) and 89.8 percent of the Grand Slam singles matches he played. Both are male open era records. In addition, Borg's six French Open singles titles is the all-time record for a male player.[3][4]

Borg is the only player in the open era to have won both Wimbledon and the French Open in the same year more than once; he did so in three consecutive years. (In 2008 Rafael Nadal became the first player since Borg to win both titles in the same year.)

Sorry, I wanted to post something with as much if not more relevance than Tom's posts.

Oh thank you Warren!

I get it now. Nevermind anything I said. It makes perfect sense. Forget the relocation. Save the railyard!

rail has almost 0 to do with brac ... and tinker AFB is neither small nor redundant .. AWACS is a huge AF mission ..28 of the 32 jets plus all depot support is a TAFB tacamo is a mission critical navy program at TAFB .. and the OC-ALC provides depot support for the B1 and B-52 KC 135 E-3 and to a lesser extent the B-2 ... not to mention .. its huge job of engine overhall for about 100 airframes ..

that and the fact that brac very much cares about best cost .. and with our low cost of living .. tinker will only grow in the future ..
TAFB is not going anywhere


also .. funny you should use the average income stat for oklahoma ... in which we are low ... and not the wall st journal .. income ajusted for col .. in which okc .. ranks very very well in the us


that and the fact .. that we don't have a "transportation" problem and have a huge land size based on our city population ..

is why we don't want to listen to you propaganda .. and why rail is not that important of an issue in the near future

The magazine "Renovation Style" has an article devoted to the train station in Nashville. They've turned it into a high-end hotel. It was a glowing article, without any handwringing about the fact that it's not being used as a train station.

Score Betts, now we can use his own material against him.

Wow, what a beautiful building......and what a great use for a building that had become obsolete for its originally intended purpose.


"A Historic And Elegant Past At Nashville Union Station Hotel
Peel back the layers of time at Union Station - A Wyndham Historic Hotel, a splendidly restored 19th-Century railroad station. Come to Nashville Union Station and turn the clock back to a grander era - when travel was truly exotic and special. Back then, passengers dressed in their "Sunday Finest" and gathered in huge terminals that resembled castles rather than train stations. An excited, yet civil, energy charged the air, alongside soaring Victorian architecture, ornate wood carvings, and exquisite Italian marble.

Pulsing locomotives hissed on the platforms, as rubber-throated conductors shouted, "All aboard!" Visit those magnificent days through these notable characteristics, which make our stunning Nashville TN Union Station hotel truly special, including:

Heavy-stone Richardsonian-Romanesque design

Designated a National Historic Landmark in 1977

65-foot, barrel-vaulted lobby ceiling, featuring gold-leaf medallions and 100-year-old, original Luminous Prism stained glass

Marble floors, oak-accented doors and walls, and a limestone fireplace

20 gold-accented bas-relief angel of commerce figurines

Two bas-relief panels - a steam locomotive and horse-drawn chariot - at each end of the lobby


A Century Of Pride And Tradition At Nashville TN Union Station

Long before it was a historic hotel, Nashville, TN Union Station was a key center in America's economy and culture. Opening on Oct. 9, 1900, to great fanfare, the building's imposing Gothic design - featuring lofty turrets and towers - was a testament to U.S. ingenuity and energy. During railroading's glory years, the station saw characters such as movie starlet Mae West and Mafia kingpin Al Capone - who was escorted through here on his way to Georgia penitentiary. Other fascinating facts surrounding our historic Nashville hotel include:

Construction began on Aug. 1, 1898

Station officially opened on Oct. 9, 1900

The lobby once held two alligator ponds located on the track level

The Train Shed was the largest unsupported span in America, housing up to 10 full trains at once

Officially opened as a hotel in December 1986

Re-dedicated on October 9, 2007 after $11 million dollar renovation"

Downtown Nashville Hotels & Tennessee Room Reservations-Union Station Wyndham Historic Hotel

What I appreciate about this thread - and why I keep coming back - is that Tom hasn't been censured and the thread hasn't been locked.

El Reno Tribune Opinion Page, Sunday, November 9, 2008
OUR VIEW: ISSUE OF TRANSPORTATION MUCH BROADER THAN MUNICIPAL BOUNDARIES

The Issue: Some in Oklahoma City are upset with leaders in surrounding communities for seeking more information on Interstate 40 project.

We Suggest: El Reno leaders and those in other communities did the right thing in seeking more information on a project that impacts regional transportation.

Editorial writers in Oklahoman City want El Reno, Norman, Chickasha and Shawnee to mind their own business.

The opinion writers are upset because elected leaders in these hamlets of central Oklahoma supported a resolution asking that a closer look be made at how the relocation of Interstate 40 in Oklahoma City will impact Union Station.

Some railroad enthusiasts believe moving the highway will decimate the historic station and cripple any future plans for development of a commuter rail system that could link the area. The rail supporters made their case to the councils in each of the four communities mentioned and apparently their argument must have been convincing. All four councils approved the resolution seeking further study. The resolution wasn't anything mean-spirited or damaging, it simply asked for the matter to be considered. It's like a few years ago when Oklahoma City's mayor approached some nearby communities with the idea of combining fire departments. The idea sounded logical to us, but others weren't interested and so nothing materialized.

We're excited elected leaders are willing to ask questions. These people made a decision based on the information presented to them. If an opposing view is out there, those who share it need to do a better job of telling their side of the story.

It's difficult for us to imagine as progressive as Oklahoma City has been recently that leaders there wouldn't have some future plan for rail transportation. None of us knows what the price of gasoline will be next week, not to mention next year. Alternative transportation plans would seem to make sense, or cents, however you wish to view the matter. We believe Oklahoma should be pursuing the development of natural gas-powered trains. Talk about creating jobs and demand for our plentiful and affordable natural resource.

Cities around the nation, many similar in size to Oklahoma City and the surrounding area, have developed commuter rail service, so why shouldn't we in central Oklahoma be talking to one another about this regional issue?

A few years ago some in Oklahoma City proposed renaming the North Canadian River. They wanted the river to be called the Oklahoma River. The portion of the river inside Oklahoma County was indeed renamed the "Oklahoma River" and with millions of dollars of improvements, the river has become quite an attraction for boat races.

This is just a guess, but we're betting if any federal money was used to make the improvements to the "Oklahoma River," it was a small slice of the pie. That's unlike the billion-dollar relocation of Interstate 40. The majority of funding for this project will come from Uncle Sam, so even though it's in Oklahoma City, it's a project that all of us are helping to fund. No doubt, many motorists from El Reno, Shawnee, Chickasha and Norman will drive on the new road on their way to and from stores, businesses and events in Oklahoma City. That is, unless we're told to stay home and mind our own business.

For the upteenth time Tom - Almost everyone on here is in favor of rail. We just don't want Union Station to be the center of a large freight/mail processing facility with hundreds of semi-trucks lined up on city streets waiting to load/unload. It really is no more complicated than that. America will survive without a railyard at Union Station no matter what they think in Dallas or Buffalo or Denver or El Reno or Norman or Shwnee or Lawton or ....

BTW - The rail station Chattanooga, TN was turned in to a hotel along time ago.
http://www.choochoo.com/

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Oklahoma City - The surprise your family has been looking for.

Natural gas powered trains to where? Who's paying and who's riding? I agree with Kerry. No one is saying no to trains, light rail or any alternative transportation. It's the location of the station people are arguing about. The small town leaders are being told half-truths in an attempt to agitate them about something I can guarantee you they're not willing to pay for and are unlikely to have significant ridership on.

IMPRESSIVE RECENT FILINGS IN STB CASE FD 35164

Check recent STB filings in this case at http://stb.dot.gov Click on "ENHANCED SEARCH," then on "Filings." Search by Docket Number: FD 35164

Hey guys, right now it's pretty much junk/salvage yards with crap everywhere...why don't we ditch the idea of cleanup...save the $...and just build a massive station there. That way when you're riding on the rail into and out of the station it will be kind of like riding on Marta in some areas of Atlanta...nice ghettofied neighborhoods around the transit hub!

HEY, gotta look at all sides, ya know?

Some areas down there remind me of that movie Nothing But Trouble...VALKENVANIA! ha ha...

Interesting plan. Union Station can be the rose on the dung heap.

BNSF SENT THEM $1400 BUCKS AS A "FILING FEE"??? Yeah, right, filing fee...jeez...i'm in the wrong business.

betts,

I'm still working on scanning in all of the work I had done so far.

Did you get the last PM I sent you?

Betts sez: The small town leaders are being told half-truths in an attempt to agitate them about something I can guarantee you they're not willing to pay for and are unlikely to have significant ridership on.
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Norman and Chickasha are both college towns. Lawton is also a college town, and home of the Army's Field Artillery Center. I'm just guessing you might have more than a little trouble passing many wooden nickels there.

El Reno, meanwhile, is a railroad town, having been the District point for the Rock Island and its successors for many years, and boasting one of the largest and most active chapters of NARVRE, the National Association of Retired and Veteran Railroad Employees, in the nation. Any number of recent city councilors there are railroad people. They know the business and the lay of the state's assets backwards and forwards.

Shawnee, also, has long benefited from similar influence - another city with an active railway retiree chapter -- and home of the legendary Jim Townsend, former Rock Island engineer, State Representative (who wrote the 1981 legislation purchasing the first 750 miles of railway for the state) and Corporation Commissioner. This is not to mention the academicians, currently teaching and leading at OBU or St. Gregory's, or retired. Folks like Dr. Robert Barnard -- who has long fought for enhancement of local rail assets, including the failed effort to save the Wrangler plant for Seminole by reviving its rail access.

And -- by the way -- they didn't learn this stuff from me over the last 23 years. I learned it from them.

TOM ELMORE

...and all of those towns added together are half the population of OKC proper. So I think "small town" is an acurate description.

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Oklahoma City - The surprise your family has been looking for.