I was in First National not long ago on about 11 or 12 or something and looking south down Robinson. I think it is going to be spectacular but I wish the progress could be accelerated.

Where is the I-40 loop going to be? Will it run right through the C2S area?

Here's a link to all the Core to Shore plans. I went to the open meeting this fall, which was very interesting. They had all the plans blown up and on easels around the room so you could view them easily. If there's another open meeting, I would highly recommend going to anyone interested.

City of Oklahoma City | Core to Shore

Thanks Betts. The I-40 loop will help the area by giving it more out of town eyeballs. Sweet.

Not exactly, Dustbowl, as it will be six feet below grade, and I believe will be landscaped on either side. Maybe it will look alluring enough from down there that people will get off the exits and investigate.

Okay, I took the floorplan and cropped, enlarged, color-coded and labeled.

Blue: Big, grand rooms with great flooring, ceilings, etc.
Green: Outdoor space
Yellow: Secondary rooms that are somewhat sizable and unique
Orange: Smaller rooms
Pink: Rest rooms
Red: Tunnel area

I really hope they keep the main waiting room in tact and available to the general public, after taking out the newly constructed second floor platform and the offices underneath. I could see a museum exhibit on the old train station and perhaps other OKC historical memorabilia on movable panels that could be pushed to the room's edges or removed altogether for catered events. The ticket area and windows would be perfect for a bar!

I think the 'Colored Waiting Room' (good grief, it's hard to believe this sort of thing was so common place!!) would be a great cafe site, with access to the outdoor loggia where they could set up tables in the nice months for a great view across the park and of the skyline.

Room C was the old lunch counter and it's the one shown with the circular fireplace which was obviously added later. But the beamed ceilings and general feel of that room is fantastic, so perhaps that could be a gift shop or another room that could be hired out for private banquets and functions.

Rooms A & B are set up as large conference/meeting rooms and that might be a good idea for the future as well.

Another idea would be to use the old lunchroom for a cafe and include the east courtyard as well.

I have no idea what to do with the massive docks in the back which I cropped off of this plan. But they are covered in that same great stone and could easily be fixed up.

This is Room B as shown above and you can see the great tile (brick?) on the walls but also that they've installed a dropped acoustical ceiling at some point. Hopefully, the original ceiling has been largely untouched:

I totally forgot about the tower!

There is a staircase inside there, although I'm not quite sure how you access it.

But, the very top would be a great vantage spot for a view north across the park and the skyline, and south over the new I-40 to the river:

Pete, I am curious. Did you have any problems walking around on the inside? Did anyone seem to care that you were walking around taking pictures?

fever, there is a receptionist at the COPTA desk at the only point you get enter the building. Her demeanor was somewhere between suspicious and rude. "Who are you? What exactly do you want?" I guess they don't get many requests which is really sad if you think about it, especially since they still have the historical photos and plaques up in the interior.

She did ask someone in authority and that woman immediately said "Absolutely!" and was very friendly.

And once I was past the receptionist, nobody lifted an eyebrow.


I would encourage anyone who is interested to go by there. It's a city-owned building of great significance and if you were to see it in person, I'm sure you would be as fired up as I am about it's potential.

The building is great but what is really amazing is where all the rail lines go, Tinker, Will Rogers, Norman, Tulsa and to all major points in the state. Isn't it a shame to tear all those lines up for the just highways and cars? Is there some way for the the rail lines to be preserved? Seems like Union Rail Yard is a jewel that once gone seals the fate of highways and cars over a future smart good public transit hub for the state.

can anyone help me? was union ever a museum? i thought i visited it as a kid once.

DG - have you seen the condition of the rail yard? It is beyond salvageable. The only good part about it is the right-of-way but that can be purchased somewhere else, like under the new boulevard. A little cut and cover when the new iconic road is built and downtown OKC would have a really nice underground main rail station connected to Core to Shore, downtown, the Conncourse system, Bricktown, The Ford Center, and the new convention center. No way could Union Station compete with that.

__________________
Oklahoma City - The surprise your family has been looking for.

Have a look at this place called "Chijmes" in Singapore. It is a wonderful complex of restaurant and entertainment venues that were created out of a former convent. The atmosphere is unique in the world, but given the architectural heritage of union Station, I could see a similar restoration and use for OKC. It would take vision and courage, but anchoring C2S with such a location would be an automatic draw for development in the area.

First thing though.... get rid of that post-office building in front of the station!

CHIJMES

Something of a "Tavern on the Green" would be accomplished as well. I know in the C2S drawings I saw, there was a Rose Garden in front of Union Station (where the post-office now stands) and the drawing showed a wedding taking place in the Rose Garden. The comment by the presenter was "with reception to follow in Union Station", so I know there are plans to make it a venue or restaurant.

The rail yard at OKC Union Station is "beyond salvagable?"

What?

What qualified individual would make such an assertion?

Now that all seem to agree that the Union Station terminal building is everything those of us who have been fighting for for nearly 20 years have claimed it is -- I guess I'd have to say, "welcome -- what took you so long?"

The original platform tracks were laid with 90 lb per yard rail. It was removed in a "progressive maintenance salvage operation" a few years ago. Modern standards call for at least 115 lb per yard rail. Relaying the yard lines per some modern update of the original plan is no problem. It would have needed to have been done anyway.

The platform shelters could be easily rebuilt.

Obviously, the important, irreplaceable aspect is the primary capital engineering -- grading, access, etc. With respect to those things, the yard is precisely as designed today.

Compare it to the "all new Ft. Worth Intermodal Center" -- where Heartland Flyer patrons must cross live rail lines carrying regular, fast Trinity Railway Express commuter trains, on foot, at grade.

The pedestrian and freight tunnels like those at OKC Union Station are expensive -- which is why you can't afford to destroy them if you already have them.

Anybody go into the passenger tunnels? Express freight tunnels?

Anybody know that Thurman Magbee deliberately built modular office space in the grand waiting room of stick and drywall -- so it could be easily removed to return the station to its original grandeur for passenger service?

Note that most of the surface floor space of the terminal building is Mail, Baggage and Express handling facility. That accurately portrays the classic "revenue pie" that traditionally supported intercity commercial passenger services.

Oh -- and that "Post Office?" That's why it's there.

So it goes in Oklahoma City.

Welcome to the Post 9-11-01 World. Glad you've noticed the tools we need to function in it.

TOM ELMORE

betts, keep in mind the C2S "plans" are nothing too official. I would hope that it would be restored into an events center/ restaurant, but I wouldn't get your hopes up. The renderings are the "potential" of what C2S can offer.

the post office will be gone very soon ..

Tom,

I know you have been preaching the virtues of Union Station and the existing infrastructure for some time.

With the I-40 relocation, is reestablishing it as a functioning rail station still doable? Do you think that is still the best way to proceed with passenger rail in OKC?

I was told the passenger tunnels were being used for storage and that they weren't readily accessible.

And yes, as I pointed out in this thread, the walls and second floor added in the larger rooms were clearly placed on top of the original floors and don't seem to have inflicted any permanent damage. Thank goodness for that!

One of the reasons ODOT and its minions deliberately planned "a new Crosstown" through the Union Station yard was that they wanted rid of that facility. They know what it means -- and are determined to deny its use to the people of the state.

That, alone, is at least as important to them as any "new highway."

And Istook -- what does he care about "a New Crosstown?" I'd argue it's entirely clar that what he was determined to fund was the destruction of our rail center.

(Think I'm exaggerating? Not one bit.)

These are bad peole -- doing bad things for bad reasons. (Clear enough?)

I repeat: Intelligent reuse of Union Station is the only hope Oklahomans now living have of seeing a comprehensive, regional, multimodal transit system in their lifetimes.

Cornett and company know it. That's precisely why they want it gone.

As noted: Bad people doing bad things for bad reasons. (Ever been threated with "a thousand cops" by the Mayor's pecksniffian little assistant? Ever spent a night or two in the Okla. County lockup -- while you're trying to put a transit forum together?)

The tunnels, etc., are readily accessible -- and should be seen. Meet me down there. I'll show you.

Union Station is the answer. I know of no other answer -- but I sure know why those attempting to destroy it pretend "other answers are no big deal."\

Hey apart from reverent, intelligent reuse of the gifts of our forbears -- all that's required is "time and money" -- and Oklahoma is fresh out of both.

Check the sound and video files, as well as the links on the North American Transportation Institute website (yes, I know, long overdue for update). Also check the Union Station section at "nomoron," which is a "dot com."

TOM ELMORE

Tom,

Before I even read your last post I did see the videos and slideshow and listened to the podcasts.

Your comparison of Dallas' multi-modal rail station was especially enlightening because it seems we actually have better infrastructure for what they have done -- and could do it better.


However, it seems this battle has already been lost. I can't imagine how the railyard can be saved with all the money, work and plans that have already been committed.

I would suggest the best hope is that Union Station itself is preserved.

your bias is so sad it is almost funny ... you repeating something over and over doesn't make it true ...

union station was in a horrible location for a transit hub ... with out the cross town moving it would have remained basically in the ghetto ..

we will have a new transit center most likely as part of maps 3 ...

called very civic minded leaders "bad" people is funny ... are you in jr high??

I've apparently been places you haven't been and seen things you haven't seen, Boulder -- or is that possible?

TOM ELMORE

Wow, that place is just lovely!

Tom,

It seems the only way to really push your conclusions (and observations) into the limelight is to summarize them in such a way that is supported by facts.

You've got lots of data and information out there but unless you can present a very compelling case, the train (excuse the euphemism) has already left the station in terms of the new I-40 alignment.

I admire your dedication and passion to this cause. It certainly can't be for self-gain so I no one should have any reason to doubt your motives.

It seems to me you have one last chance to save the rail infrastructure you see as so vital... And that is to document the corruption you claim is behind all this.

If you've already done this in a concise way, I'd certainly like to see it and I'm sure others would as well. If you don't want to do it for personal reasons, I can understand that as well.