Yeah I guarantee you Chick-fil-a could have reopened after the remodel and be in really good shape right now.

Anyone know if this place is still open? I'd like to swing by and get a good deal if they are before they close. Hopefully they won't have to but every indication I've got is that they will have to.

I'm pretty sure they are still open.

They have shut their doors for good. Not particuarly surprised given the bad economic times.
Another One Bites the Dust

I think for retail to be reasonably sure of success, unless it's a coveted brand we don't have anywhere else in town or the kind of merchandise that appeals to visitors, we need retail in volumes. People don't want to drive downtown to go to just one store, and not that many people shop over their lunch hour. Retail will be far more likely to succeed when we have people living downtown and it's an interesting destination for people who don't live downtown. Speaking of which, I was driving down Sheridan the other day, which I almost never do, and saw, just west of downtown a block long strip of old stores on both sides of the street I'd never noticed before. That's the kind of area that, in a place like Chicago, would be developed, with retail, restaurants and clubs.

The trouble here, I think wasn't that retail 'can't survive' downtown. It's that some stores are doomed concepts. Here, we had a specialty store which specialized in British-style business and casual wear. It seemed like an okay concept, but the fact is that just about everyone in the men's clothing industry already carries a decent assortment of things made from Harris Tweed, etc.

Tina Hicks Company has a much worse location, IMHO, and they do just fine. I also love the stuff they carry (when I can afford it).

I agree with both of you. It seemed like too niche a concept from the beginning, but getting the retail in volumes is really what we need.

I think a developer should try to lure several national retailers at the same time out of Crossroads to A-Alley or somewhere like that.

American Eagle
PacSun
Victoria's Secret
Bath & Body Works
Hot Topic
Foot Locker
Christopher & Banks

They'd be more likely to come downtown in larger numbers, and the volume would help lure other retailers such as Urban Outfitters.

Actually no... I'd hope that doesn't happen. There are enough of those damned places. If it can be found in every mall in the U.S., we don't need it in AA. AA is turning out to be a pretty awesome area. I drove down Broadway to my office this evening, and I think I counted at least three art shows going on. Leave AA to its own devices and keep cookie cutter chain retail the hell out of it.

Ugh. I hope not. I'd rather get some shops that have a bit more independence to them and not like every other store you find in a suburban strip mall.

Yeah, me too.

But the indie, local shops will not thrive without some "names" to draw crowds. That's all I'm saying.

They're thriving.

Envy, Firefly, Lit, Painted Door, CD Warehouse, etc...

I'm not sure I would call any of them thriving. National, upscale chains (not Payless or Ace Pawn Shop) mixed in there would help keep these places in business. Most urban retail areas have some chains mixed in. It's very unreasonable to think that we can have significant downtown retail without some of it being chains to draw the foot traffic.

I did buy some Christmas gifts for my kids at Envy and Lit, in an attempt to help out the downtown merchants. Envy is a little too Ed Hardy for them, and hopefully that look will be modulated a little bit, since my kids and all their friends like clothes a little less decorated. But, they carry Lamb, and some other brands that got positive remarks from them. The owner told us she's thinking of opening a shoe store next door, which would be great.

AKA Film Row which currently has a few people that have moved down there and several plans under works for several years now including a streetscape project. See the Film Row thread for more details.

http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-are...ow-update.html

http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-are...ome-alive.html

Agreed, we are not a NYC, Philly or Atlanta, we will need some of these larger generic brands to keep the indies afloat. I wish that weren't so, but unfortunately it will be the only thing to kick off downtown retail. Now 20-30 years from now we might be able to support all indie stores downtown, but it's not realistic to happen currently.

As an owner of a downtown retail location (Oklahoma's Red Dirt Emporium), I agree with the comments regarding a true need for SOME national retailers, while also agreeing with the comments regarding a need to stay heavily local in flavor.

The national retailers should be unusual or highly desirable in nature, to increase traffic from visitors and locals. This is much like a desirable downtown restaurant mix. A Chili's, for instance, would probably be a bad fit at this point, since the city has a wealth of them elsewhere/everywhere. But something like an ESPN Zone or Dave and Buster's would probably be a great fit, complementing the local choices.

The same holds true for retail. Urban Outfitters, Crate & Barrel, West Elm, Restoration Hardware or the like would probably be great, and unique within the metro, whereas Foot Locker, Bath & Body Works, etc., wouldn't offer any distinct shopping experiences to lure locals away from the mall.

Those retailers I mentioned as good fits would probably be best situated in a development similar to what was proposed for the Steel Yard (mixed-use, large floor plate available, cohesive development, contiguous parking), whereas an area like the canal probably works best for smaller, independent retailers like ours. The more the merrier, however. There needs to be a density of retail before anyone can truly thrive. Back when I was a Main Street manager (Automobile Alley), the training we received from the National Main Street Center preached that you need a minimum of six densly-located retail options before users will consider you a "retail destination."

It's a bit of a chicken-or-the-egg discussion, of course. That's why we decided to jump into our own retail project with both feet despite having no guarantee of success, in an effort to get the ball rolling in Bricktown, and specifically on the canal.

I think the soon-to-be-released Bricktown land use study will define these issues much better than they ever have been, and will create a new set of guidelines and recommendations for property owners to use as the develop their real estate, at least where Bricktown is concerned.

And, for the record, I think concept, product mix and management have much more to do with whether a downtown retailer survives or not than do parking or rent. Simply put, there are a number of operators (both retail and restaurant) I have seen downtown over the years who have completely missed the market on product, failed to account for seasonality (which is actually opposite of traditional retail), and failed to adjust staffing during busy and slow times.

It is especially challenging to do this in downtown and Bricktown, and people who think just because they ran a business successfully in the 'burbs that Bricktown is a lead-pipe cinch are in for a nasty surprise. In my opinion, while the rewards are potentially great, you actually have to be far more business savvy to survive downtown than elsewhere. Unfortunately, the perceived success (most people only see Bricktown during really busy times) brings a lot of amateurs with get-rich-quick dreams into the mix.

There are certainly examples of retailers who have survived and even thrived despite the slow times, paid parking, and everything associated with doing business downtown. Exhibit A: B.C. Clark Jewelers.

Even the Country Club Plaza in Kansas City has a Gap. I think, in moderation, some well-known, commonplace anchor tenants would not hurt.

Didn't read all the posts but...

I'm glad there are new clothing stores opening downtown, you're right, that's a really good sign!

I also just emailed the store H&M a few days ago about opening a location in the metro area, and here's how it was said..

what I emailed:


"Hey guys...love your store and your clothes. I have been to the
location at the Mall of America in Bloomington, Minnesota as well as the
new location in Washington state. I love your store, but never get a
chance to go! The closest location is in Kansas City (6 hours away!).
I live near Oklahoma City. I think choosing to put an H&M in Oklahoma
City would be great. New businesses are actually doing well there in
spite of the economic crisis. Forbes Magazine rated Oklahoma City as
"the number one recession proof city" in the nation. Even more
recently, there has been a demand for these kinds of clothes in
Oklahoma. I think opening near Bricktown (a highly tourist, brick
themed area with many event locations near downtown) or even in Norman
(south of Oklahoma City, and is the home of the University of Oklahoma,
the largest university in the state). People in Oklahoma are becoming
much more fashion conscious, and I think your high fashion looks with
great prices would do WELL here. Anyway..just thought I would mention
it. I wish there was at LEAST a store in Dallas, so I would be 3 hours
closer..Thanks for reading.

-Brandon"


(I realize now the store wasn't in Kansas City but somewhere else in Missouri, oops)

"Here's what they replied:


Hello Brandon, and thank you for your e-mail.

We appreciate your interest in H&M.
Since our launch in the U.S. 9 years ago, we have been focused on a
rapid expansion and
are currently looking for the perfect location in your area. Our
Expansion Dept. and Real Estate Team are aggressively searching for new
locations in your state and others throughout the US. Hopefully we will
have some news regarding a new H&M near you. Please check our
informational websites periodically for new locations, as they will be
published there first: H&M and H&M Friends and Family - Need More Fashion?.

Again, thank you for your interest in H&M.

Sincerely,
H&M Customer Service"


I thought this was really cool. I think it really helps somewhat to email companies and share how much we'd like their stores to come. I also heard Urban Outfitters was coming to Penn Square, but with all this hype about clothing going downtown, I'd love to see one there as well. I honestly think the metro could handle two, or even 3 or 4...but that'll take awhile. haha

They replied to you with a cut/paste form letter.

Well it's still better than, "the demographics in your area do not fit our model. thank you for your interest."

There is no store I want more than H&M, and many of my friends would agree. Dallas is sure to have one very soon, and hopefully we are on their radar.

I completely agree with you. The only reason I mentioned those stores is because they are all in Crossroads currently and likely looking for somewhere to move. They aren't going to go for just any strip mall, so why not try to lure them somewhere downtown to urban storefronts? It's a start at least. I do think the prime real estate in A-Alley should be reserved for more exclusive stores and local establishments.

Does anyone really think we'll get a store like this in the near future? Retail stores around the country are closing their doors. I was at the mall this weekend doing some xmas shopping. At each store I shopped I made a point to ask the retailer how business was doing. Most of the stores were clothing stores. All said that business wasn't good for their store or many others, and many stated that their company was closing many stores around the country.

This is something I can totally agree with you on. I may prefer local shops, but it's something like this that's going to have to get downtown retail off the ground to survive long-term.