Doctors Overpaid?

I actually have enough time to post here because I took a leave of absence and decided to stay home for a few years with a son I'd not gotten to spend much time with when he was young.

I understand people questioning why some professions make more money than others, but I've not seen anyone questioning why lawyers make so much money, or stockbrokers. Frankly, we've had a lot more training than they have, and most of us make less money. Also, if people get their wish, and doctors make the same income as everyone else we'll end up with the Russian version of medicine. If excellence is not rewarded somehow, the excellent go elsewhere. Altruism is wonderful during the daylight hours and 40 hour work weeks.

It is true that greeters work at night, but they don't also work all day. It's almost impossible for someone who's not gone through medical school and residency to understand just how grueling it is. First, you've got four years of college, and when I was there, you needed close to a 4.0 in your science classes to get in to medical school, so I studied nonstop. Then you get into medical school, where your competition is all the other people who also got 4.0's, and everyone wants good grades, because that's how they pick you for residency. Four more years, with even more studying than the first. I cannot tell you how many nights I studied all night long before tests. Then you're a resident. I can only speak for myself, but I worked every day of the week, unless I was lucky enough to be on an elective (three months) when I got the weekends off, athough I was still on call every fourth night, which could end up being a weekend day. The other nine months of the year, not only did I work seven days a week, but I was on call every fourth night. That meant you spent the night in the hospital, and usually were up all night, having to work the entire next day. During this time, I had four children, so when I went home at night, I was a mom, the cook, the housekeeper, the homework helper, the soccer mom etc.

I'm not putting all this down because I felt sorry for myself. But, people need to understand that the greeters at Walmart, as valuable as they are, work an 8 hour shift at most, during which time they're not responsible for people's lives, they're not getting sued, and they're not in massive debt for their greeter training. They haven't given up 11 years of their life to learn how to greet, missing first smiles, first hits in a t-ball game, and years of tucking the children in at night. I did medicine because I loved it and felt called to do it, but if I were compensated like a greeter, and I had it to do all over again, I wouldn't. I gave up too much and missed too much to be paid minimum wage. I'd turn in my stethoscope and learn to greet. I don't think we have enough truly saintly people in this country to provide medical care for everyone who needs it if we paid them like greeters.

Wrong. Spears collects a big paycheck because she creates a hell of a lot of wealth for others. Doctors are also paid to make money for other people (unless they work for themselves). Spears is a unique commodity, doctors, for the most part, are not. Supply and demand dictates what each are paid, not the goodness or helpfulness, but the almighty dollar.

You'd say Spears produces less money than the average doctor? That's demonstrably false.

Says you. The people paying her big bucks would disagree.

That's America.

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In a way, I almost want to say that you're right because it isn't very ethical to value one human more than the other. (ethical in terms of universalistic/utilitarian views)

But where it ends is that you are essentially saying that rational adults don't deserve the right to pay the price they feel is worthwhile.

If we aren't paying doctors for their social value as people who went to medical school, got board certified, and work to treat the ailments of others, then we at least pay them for taking a risk that most of us wouldn't go near. Having someone's life in your hands and at the mercy of your decision.

If you have the time, check out the Wilt Chamberlain Example

I will bring up this post if God forbid anything major ever happens to you midtowner. Maybe instead of finding you a doctor we can get brit to sing for you.

I completely disagree. I think a doctor is much more valuable than say Jeffrey Dahmer.

I think those who save and change lives should be paid much more than they are. This includes teachers, social workers, police, emsa, fire fighters, military, doctors, and the people who make beer, chocolate, and cream puffs.

My wife was a CNA in 2 of the cities larger hospitals, and a home health care provider for about 12 years. She got out of that part of the medical field because she saw that most hospitals don't care about the patient as an individual, but as income for the hospital. Charged the patient for everything, and at costs that are well above the retail cost. One example is a patient that was charged $5 for a pair of bootie socks. Hospital execs are making lots of money at the expense of the patient.
I understand that the cost of medical equipment is going up, but to charge extreme prices for every day items like socks, toothpaste, shampoo, etc... is absurd in all honesty. Go to Wal-Mart/SAM'S and buy the stuff in bulk there to reduce costs.
I agree with kmf563 100% about those that save and change peoples lives being underpaid.

$5 for bootie socks? That's a FREAKIN STEAL!

I had surgery last month, and my booty socks on my itemized list were $28. They've got cute little paws printed on them though. I'm sure that part was extra.

We're talking about compensation here. In this country, you are paid based upon how much wealth you create for others. That is the determination of your worth. It's a matter of supply and demand. If I want medical care, there are several hospitals, a dozen clinics and hundreds of private practitioners here in town. All are covered by my insurance. I can see anybody I want for the price of a copay.

You're being silly. If I need of medical care, I go see a doctor, not Spears. I then pay my copay and then my insurance company pays that doctor, his practice, the hospital, etc., whatever the prenegotiated fee is for the service performed.

We also get into an economy of scale. A doctor only helps one person at a time. Spears, while not really helping many people, is compensated a little differently. When someone plays a Spears song or buys one of her songs for their Ipod, the money from that purchase is distributed to several entities. Among those is Spears. If Spears has had eight #1 songs and is among the top selling performers of all time. The amount of wealth she has created for others compared to what an average doctor creates is not even remotely comparable.

We're talking money here, not warm fuzzies.

How much was Dahmer paid for what he did? I'm pretty sure no one paid him. I don't see how this statement even remotely applies to anything I've ever said.

Assuming arguendo Dahmer's image might be marketable somewhere, maybe on t-shirts sold at Hot Topix, and since Dahmer's dead, he's not going to benefit from that. He wasn't paid anything by his victims, so you have nothing there. The folks who profit are those who profit from a certain niche market. Do they [the hypothetical t-shirt people] make more profit than your average doctor? We're waaay out on a hypothetical limb, but say it's a Hot Topix shirt, again, we're talking an economy of scale. There are how many Hot Topix store and how many "unique" teenagers who would pay money for such a product? Versus a doctor who can only serve one patient at a time? There's your answer.

Policemen, EMSA and the Fire Department folks all do pretty well. Teachers and social workers? You'll get no argument from me. These folks, however, are in a different class (EMSA, arguably not). These folks are public servants. Their compensation is based more upon political power, supply of workers, and the availability of public funds to pay them. If you want to pay teachers and social workers more, are you willing to pay more taxes? Do without a state agency? Fall further behind on our road maintenance? That's the choice that has to be made with public employees.

With doctors, we have a different situation. Doctors can do really, really well depending on their specialty. It's the economy of scale thing again though. If you go to Advanced Laser Center, you might get to see a real Opthamologist for 15 minutes. You stand in line to have your surgery. The guy is capable of producing about $5,600/hr, assuming he's doing the LASIK procedure, that the surgeries take around 15 minutes (they take less time than that) and assuming that each patient has both eyes fixed. Sure, there's probably massive overhead, but Dr. John Bellardo isn't hurting for money at all.

Then there are your doctors who are public employees. A very good friend of mine is a doctor at the V.A. He doesn't make as much as John Bellardo. Does he save lives? Yep. Does Bellardo? Nope. Which one creates more wealth though? Bellardo, by a long shot. My friend at the V.A. has participated in major research, breakthrough stuff which will really improve the quality of life for many people. He's a public employee though, so he's paid like a teacher. I'm not sure the same sort of work is available in the private sector.

We don't pay people for creating warm fuzzies (unless those people are public employees).

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Sorry Midtowner, I meant for that to be for jsenter not you. Jsenter said everyone serves their purpose in life. I think doctors serve a higher purpose than Dahmer - that was my point.

That was about 5-6 years ago when she told the cost, and that was per pair if I remember correctly.

You'll pay more than that for a single Tylenol if you're hospitalized nowadays.

Big hospital corporations have to stay rich! Doctors sure aren't seeing it. I'm ready to unionize.

I work in a hospital. One of our biggest problems is people who do not pay their medical bills. Many times hospitals have to charge the paying paitents more to offset those who do not pay.

I do not understand why you can walk away from a hospital and not pay a dime of your bill. If you did that at a restaurant or at an auto repair place you would go to jail for theft of services.

I think hospitals need a method to recover the lost expenses on those that do not pay.

I have a sneaky feeling that jsenter is a greeter at Wal-Mart.

First of all, trying to compare health care with auto repair and eating out at a restaurant is stretching it a little. You can always choose to not get your car fixed, or choose not to eat out, but nobody makes the decision to have a brain aneurysm.

The answer to your question is rather simple and shows why we need a way to make sure all Americans have access to affordable health care; per your question, the answer is that some people need emergency care - and have no way to pay for it! And with $6.50 aspirin and other huge markups to maintain large profits at these hospitals, it's easy - without insurance - to not be able to afford it. And, btw, when it comes to "non-profits" in hospitals - that's a huge joke. Scandalous, really.

You do realize that the idea of privately paying for care and the state of your health depending on the size of your wealth, is a totally alien and bizarre concept in the rest of the civilized world?

I had a foreign exchange student tell me they were left with their jaw on the floor after seeing a hospital advertise on TV that they offer "better chances" of survival if you go to their hospital. Sadly, we are used to it and don't think much of it. This would be unheard of - and barbaric - in all other western industrialized countries.

Karried, my wife and I are in the same boat you're in and a few weeks ago it happened.

I had a heart attack.

I haven't got the breakdown of what it's going to cost me yet but I'm sure it will be less than what I would have paid, had I paid a much higher premium for a lower deductable over the 8 years we've been self-employeed.

I will say the care I received at both Community Hospital in far south OKC and then St. Anthonys was outstanding.

Thank God I had those medical professionals to save me instead of having to hope a Wal-Mart greeter might be able to help.

Regardless of what else is wrong with our health care system, I don't believe that doctors are over-paid.

Agreed.

Omg... are you serious? sheesh, that is horrible.

Wow. I hope you are doing okay....

I just know that there is something seriously flawed with this system.

Maybe over-paid is the wrong terminology.. just paid a heck of a lot than most.

My next door neighbor is a neurosurgeon - new Mercedes every other month, nannies, private schools, moving to a million dollar home in a few months ..... enough said.

I wish I knew the solution.

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