Purgatory

#1 (**permalink**) 04-06-2005, 02:39 AM

This issue comes up a lot in the Catholic faith. To this day, I still can't find one scripture that describes this "place." I'm up for discussion on this topic...is Purgatory a real place?

mranderson · #2 (**permalink**) 04-06-2005, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick

This issue comes up a lot in the Catholic faith. To this day, I still can't find one scripture that describes this "place." I'm up for discussion on this topic...is Purgatory a real place?

You bet it is real. It is not far from Durango, Colorado.

Midtowner · #3 (**permalink**) 04-06-2005, 10:58 AM

An excerpt -- click the link to read the rest of the information:

Quote:

"Purgatory Not in Scripture"

Some Fundamentalists also charge, as though it actually proved something, "The word purgatory is nowhere found in Scripture." This is true, and yet it does not disprove the existence of purgatory or the fact that belief in it has always been part of Church teaching. The words Trinity and Incarnation aren’t in Scripture either, yet those doctrines are clearly taught in it. Likewise, Scripture teaches that purgatory exists, even if it doesn’t use that word and even if 1 Peter 3:19 refers to a place other than purgatory.

Christ refers to the sinner who "will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come" (Matt. 12:32), suggesting that one can be freed after death of the consequences of one’s sins. Similarly, Paul tells us that, when we are judged, each man’s work will be tried. And what happens if a righteous man’s work fails the test? "He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire" (1 Cor 3:15). Now this loss, this penalty, can’t refer to consignment to hell, since no one is saved there; and heaven can’t be meant, since there is no suffering ("fire") there. The Catholic doctrine of purgatory alone explains this passage.

Then, of course, there is the Bible’s approval of prayers for the dead: "In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the dead to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin" (2 Macc. 12:43–45). Prayers are not needed by those in heaven, and no one can help those in hell. That means some people must be in a third condition, at least temporarily. This verse so clearly illustrates the existence of purgatory that, at the time of the Reformation, Protestants had to cut the books of the Maccabees out of their Bibles in order to avoid accepting the doctrine.

Prayers for the dead and the consequent doctrine of purgatory have been part of the true religion since before the time of Christ. Not only can we show it was practiced by the Jews of the time of the Maccabees, but it has even been retained by Orthodox Jews today, who recite a prayer known as the Mourner’s Kaddish for eleven months after the death of a loved one so that the loved one may be purified. It was not the Catholic Church that added the doctrine of purgatory. Rather, any change in the original teaching has taken place in the Protestant churches, which rejected a doctrine that had always been believed by Jews and Christians.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp

#4 (**permalink**) 09-28-2005, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick

This issue comes up a lot in the Catholic faith. To this day, I still can't find one scripture that describes this "place." I'm up for discussion on this topic...is Purgatory a real place?

The word purgatory does not occur in any english translation of the bible. However you must also remember that is has gone through at least two languages to get to english... hebrew and latin.

Purgatory is an unbiblical concept developed in the apocryphal books (1 & 2 Maccabees, Ecclesiasticus, etc) written between the end of the Old Testament (book of Malachi) and the beginning of the New Testament (book of Matthew), a period of about 400 years when God did not speak through any prophets. The Roman Catholic church recognized these books and added them to their canon of Scripture.

It is noteworthy that the Jews themselves never considered the apocryphal books anything more than historical books. They were not considered writings inspired by God. The remainder of the christian church never considered these books as Scripture when closing the canon of Scripture. The Roman Catholic church created doctrines such as purgatory, prayers for the dead, and others from the apocryphal books, not from the sixty-six books of the Bible. For example, from the non-biblical book of 2 Maccabees:

"In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the dead to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin" (2 Macc. 12:43-45).

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