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Don't put down the people of Oklahoma....You must have not been her May 3rd, 1999 or April of 1995 or May of 2003. If you think we don't pull together as a state and as volunteers to help others (in or out of Okla.) then maybe you're right you just not an "OKIE". but, we'll be there when you need us. Rain or shine.....don't give up on this thread......try and figure out why you (like the rest of us) just don't have the real answer.....YOU WANT TO BASH SOMEONE ???GO FOR IT MY OKIE SKIN IS TOUGH ENOUGH....MAYBE IT WILL MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER:...


See ya next time:.....................

Katrina was clearly a state and local screwup. The feds dropped the ball by not applying pressure to get people in gear to get the evacuations underway. If you remember, the Louisiana officials were all chasing their shadows until the media came knocking. When the media came knocking everybody wanted to take charge and blame the feds.

If Louisiana had a clear and concise disaster plan like Oklahoma. The Katrina story would have been a story of community team work and effective government leadership.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Thank you for posting that, the city transit authority looked as bad or worse than that picture. The people that were on the bridge (t.v. interviews) could have easily walked on east and got on dry ground. They would have eventually hit the lake but, that was miles away from there. Some of the retail operations I dealt with were "looted" beyond your imagination.....What did they take???? not food, not water but cheap tennis shoes, dvd's some clothes...nothing that would help them sustain life. Believe what you want, most of the stores were wet up about 4' they then reside and the level was maybe above your ankles. Granted, where the original levee broke...you never saw that on t.v.......the water was about 6' up in the stores and the pressure and volume was such that there were some really disasterous locations.....The people in the path, right now, know the situation and unless the state goes after them you'll see this all over....If you had gone 12 miles east ( Slidell, Louisiana) you would see people working their tails off...No complaining just sweat and tears..................Go 21 miles to the west ...the same thing (LaPlace, Louisiana) I saw people in Mississippi crying their hearts out....They began right then cleaning up...No t.v. interviews...just people (like you and I)that had been dealt a hard blow......

Well, I do blame her for her part in that mess. And most of us don't realize it, but her part was a BIG one. Yes, I understand the supplies that went to waste. But there were other things that Homeland Security was suggesting that could have done some good. We'll never know because she kept getting in the way, assuring people she could "handle this" without all the help Homeland Security was offering. Well, she didn't handle it. She didn't screw things up all on her own, but she sure had a big hand in it.

National Geographic put out a very enlightening documentary on this not too long ago.

Ignoring most of this thread and just posting an update on the storm.

Latest GFDL Model Run: GFDL gustav07l 2008082900 Forecast slp Java Animation

Spaghetti Model Plot:



NHC Discussion Link: Tropical Storm GUSTAV



And finally the text for the Evening Discussion:

TROPICAL STORM GUSTAV DISCUSSION NUMBER 17
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL072008
1100 PM EDT THU AUG 28 2008

THE CENTER OF GUSTAV HAS BEEN MOVING NEAR OR OVER THE SOUTH COAST OF
JAMAICA DURING THE EVENING. SURFACE OBSERVATIONS FROM THE KINGSTON
AREA SHOWED WINDS OF TROPICAL STORM FORCE...AND THE LOWEST OBSERVED
PRESSURE WAS 990 MB. GUSTAV IS PRODUCING A LARGE AREA OF COLD
CONVECTIVE TOPS NEAR AND EAST OF THE CENTER...WITH SATELLITE
INTENSITY ESTIMATES OF 65 KT FROM TAFB AND 55 KT FROM SAB. THE
INITIAL INTENSITY REMAINS 60 KT.

THE INITIAL MOTION IS A SOMEWHAT UNCERTAIN 270/6...AFTER A SOUTH OF
WEST MOTION FOR A FEW HOURS. GUSTAV IS ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF A
MID-LEVEL RIDGE OVER FLORIDA AND THE ADJACENT WESTERN ATLANTIC.
THE DYNAMICAL GUIDANCE FORECASTS GUSTAV TO TURN NORTHWESTWARD ON THE
SOUTHWEST SIDE OF THE RIDGE DURING THE NEXT 48 HR...THEN CONTINUE IN
A GENERAL NORTHWESTWARD DIRECTION THROUGH 96 HR. THE GUIDANCE IS
RATHER TIGHTLY CLUSTERED DURING THIS TIME PERIOD. AFTER 96
HR...THERE IS SOME SPREAD...AS THE DYNAMICAL MODELS DO NOT AGREE ON
WHETHER A RIDGE WILL BUILD TO THE NORTH AND WEST OF GUSTAV. THE
GFDL MOVES THE STORM QUICKLY INLAND...WHILE THE LATEST GFS RUN
SHOWS IT SLOWING DOWN OVER SOUTHERN LOUISIANA. THE NOGAPS CALLS
FOR A LEFT TURN AFTER 96 HR TOWARD THE TEXAS COAST. THE NEW
FORECAST TRACK IS AN UPDATE OF THE PREVIOUS PACKAGE THAT IS DOWN
THE MIDDLE OF THE GUIDANCE ENVELOPE. THE TRACK IS SHIFTED ONLY
SLIGHTLY TO THE LEFT AFTER 72 HR....WITH RELIABLE MODEL FORECASTS
REMAINING ON EITHER SIDE OF THE TRACK. SINCE TRACK FORECASTS ARE
ALWAYS SUBJECT TO LARGE ERRORS AT 3-5 DAYS...IT IS SIMPLY
IMPOSSIBLE AT THIS TIME TO DETERMINE EXACTLY WHERE AND WHEN GUSTAV
WILL MAKE FINAL LANDFALL.

THE INTENSITY FORECAST IS PROBLEMATIC. GUSTAV IS SHOWING GOOD
OUTFLOW IN ALL DIRECTIONS AT THIS TIME...BUT THERE IS EVIDENCE OF
NORTHERLY VERTICAL SHEAR UNDERCUTTING THE OUTFLOW. THE LARGE-SCALE
MODELS SUGGEST THIS SHOULD SUBSIDE IN ABOUT 24 HOURS...WHICH WOULD
ALLOW SIGNIFICANT AND POSSIBLY RAPID INTENSIFICATION OVER THE WARM
WATERS OF THE NORTHWESTERN CARIBBEAN. A COMPLICATING FACTOR IS THE
UPPER-LEVEL TROUGH CURRENTLY SEEN IN WATER VAPOR IMAGERY OVER THE
GULF OF MEXICO. THE LARGE-SCALE MODELS FORECAST THIS FEATURE TO
RETREAT WESTWARD AS GUSTAV APPROACHES...WITH HIGH PRESSURE BUILDING
OVER THE SOUTHEASTERN GULF. HOWEVER...THE MODELS DO NOT AGREE ON
HOW MUCH THE TROUGH WILL MOVE...WITH THE UKMET IN PARTICULAR
SHOWING THE POSSIBILITY OF SHEAR AS GUSTAV APPROACHES THE NORTHERN
GULF COAST. THE SHIPS MODEL CALLS FOR A PEAK INTENSITY OF 99
KT...THE LGEM MODEL 94 KT...THE GFDL 111 KT...AND THE HWRF 137 KT.
THE LATTER IS DEFINITELY NOT OUT OF THE QUESTION. THE INTENSITY
FORECAST IS INCREASED OVER THE PREVIOUS FORECAST IN BEST AGREEMENT
WITH THE GFDL. HOWEVER...IT WOULD BE NO SURPRISE IF RAPID
INTENSIFICATION OCCURRED AND GUSTAV BECAME A CATEGORY 4 OR 5
HURRICANE BY 72 HR.

FORECAST POSITIONS AND MAX WINDS

INITIAL 29/0300Z 17.8N 77.3W 60 KT
12HR VT 29/1200Z 18.3N 78.6W 60 KT
24HR VT 30/0000Z 19.1N 80.4W 75 KT
36HR VT 30/1200Z 20.4N 82.3W 90 KT
48HR VT 31/0000Z 21.9N 84.2W 100 KT...NEAR COAST OF CUBA
72HR VT 01/0000Z 25.5N 87.5W 110 KT
96HR VT 02/0000Z 28.5N 90.5W 100 KT
120HR VT 03/0000Z 30.0N 92.5W 90 KT...INLAND

$$
FORECASTER BEVEN

If I could drive this thing, the folks on that NGPI purpley track would not like me much. I'd hitch up the storm ponies, point them on that route and yell giddyup n go. I've kin in Mobile, Lake Charles, Orange and east Houston.

Yeah, I know it's selfish. I get that way when its family.

If I was the driver, I would go for the Longhorns.

Well, the one good thing coming out of this is the chance we'll get a considerable amount of rain.

__________________
...this shortest straw has been pulled for you

Didn't they rebuild the levees? Make them stronger.. maybe they'll hold this time? God I hope. What a situation. If we learned nothing else, hopefully we learned what it takes to make the levees hold. We can handle the rest.

I work with homeless all the time and help rebuild lives and my job is full of triumph and joy every day. I know when we got the Katrina refugees we all wanted to help them, remember? I finally did have one come to our program and she was just broken, unable to respond to help available. She ended up leaving our program, as she had the last, and drifting elsewhere. I hope there was someone along the way who was able to get through to her.

If you were there now and saw Gustav coming and had no car and no family to help or maybe all of your family was also in its path what could you do? Walk North to where? Thats why Red Cross and others should be setting up shelters now to receive refugees, far out of Gustavs path and so that basic needs will be met during the crux of it. The problem with the potentially flooded areas is that all the systems stop working. The problem with getting all the people out is some will wager the levees will hold this time. I hope they hold. We can't all do it on our own we need community. "The poor will always be with us."

Gustav is supposed to come into oklahoma next week as a hurricane or tropical storm should be exciting and fun. Hope everyone has there golashes it will be wet and stormy.. I can't wait.

Oh, you mean the Hornets?

I wonder if OU would be open to hosting the Saints should something Hornet-like happen to them...

__________________
ProjectOKC.com

Appearantly, they're going to Indianapolis..
New Orleans Saints would go to Indianapolis if evacuation is called for - New Orleans Saints Beat - Times-Picayune - NOLA.com

New Orleans Saints would go to Indianapolis if evacuation is called for
Posted by Mike Triplett, The Times-Picayune August 28, 2008 12:24PM

The Saints will evacuate to Indianapolis this weekend and spend the entire week there if Tropical Storm Gustav maintains its current course...

A storm has never made it to Oklahoma, in documented history, as hurricane strength. Too much terrain to get through. Current indications Gustav will come into Eastern Oklahoma as a weak Tropical Storm or Depression - according to the latest models. Also looks like a front will be coming down from Kansas at the time and stall out - essentially causing massive flooding across at least the eastern part of the state.

Becareful what you wish for.

And also tornados. A lot of these tropical systems bring tornados with them along with the heavy rain.

Remember Tropical Storm Erin in Oklahoma?



They actually just came out with a report only a few months ago on the weather phenomena that Erin was. Because it reformed so significantly, questions were raised as to whether or not it really was an over-land Tropical Storm or even level 1 Hurricane (because the winds were the equivalent of that).

Interestingly, after nearly a year of debate and research, the conclusion is that what hit Oklahoma a year ago was simply a "low".

Looks like a hurricane or tropical storm to me!

More info: Tropical Storm Erin - A Hurricane Over Oklahoma ? - thedailygreen.com

__________________
ProjectOKC.com

Erin pretty much wasted my hometown of Watonga. Destroyed the cheese factory which is the staple that has held the town together forever. Cancelled the cheese festival which drew thousands of visitors last year. Its gonna be back this year, but they're bringing in non-Watonga cheese until a new cheese factory is built... I can't even imagine the devestation of a massive hurricane along the coast..

Erin had wind gusts up to hurricane force when she was over Oklahoma, but it wasn't sustained at that level long enough to be classified that way - if it was out over open water. Plus there were too many other feature going on in the upper levels of the atmosphere that caused the low to explode like it did.

I've seen plenty of thunderstorm complexes with meso-lows come through Oklahoma that have a tight area of circulation with an "eye" feature...so going off of looks we can't assume anything. Plus, a few years ago when we were battered with massive overnight complexes night after night, those storms produced sustained winds up to 100 mph for 10-20 minutes...much more powerful, on the wind front, than Erin ever was.

I posted the official report for Erin in another thread a while back, if anyone needs it again I can dig it up or just go to: National Hurricane Center

This storm now looks like landfall will be south of Lafayette, LA as a Category 3/4 storm. This is further west than Katrina, so New Orleans should have as many issues of the gulf being pushed back into the city. It also looks like Gustav will then move into NE Texas and just stall out until the front coming through Oklahoma picks it up. If this scenerio sticks...NOLA avoids a major disaster, and most of Oklahoma will avoid massive flooding.

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HEY, (NOT BEING SMART) YOU DON'T REALIZE THE WASTE....TWO (2) MONTHS AGO I BOUGHT 1700 PALLETS......PALLETS...... OF WATER SENT FOR KATRINA VICTIMS FROM FEMA IN FORT WORTH, TEXAS...WENT OUT OF DATE?????...FOR 20.00 A PALLET:......THERE WERE 72 CASES OF 24 BOTTLES OF WATER PER PALLET....THAT MAADE IT AROUND 28 CENTS A CASE...AND, I BOUGHT THEM FROM ANOTHER GUY WHO ACTUALLY BOUGHT THEM FIRST........ICE WAS UNLOADED ON THE PARKING LOTS IN 107 DEGREE WEATHER WITH NATIONAL GUARD SOLIDERS GUARDING IT SO NO ONE WOULD GET IT??????? IF AI WERE COMPUTER LITERATE I COULD SEND PICTURES THEY NO ONE WOULD BELIEVE. I AM GETTING MY TRUCK READY RIGHT NOW (TODAY) TO HEAD THAT DIRECTION WEDNESDAY MORNING. I'LL MAKE IT A POINT TO TRY AND SEND ACTUL REPORTS VIA THIS SITE FROM THE AREA.

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Hey Kid:...you've known me most of you life....I wouldn't lie to you at all. Most of the people that were stranded in N.O. had EVERY chance in the world to get out of harm's way. I was in N.O. during the shootings, during the lootings, during the police stand-offs. The people on the bridge that were getting interviewed had to do nothing but start walking east and they would have ALL the help they needed. The Red Cross was there..Feed the Children was there in a matter of days....Pat Robertson's group was alll over everywhere. There were people from Hattiesburg in both La. and Miss......I don't know what you do for a living now....but, there was a lot of "Hustle" going on down there.....I had one guy pull a knife on me telling me he was taking some shoes....I bought 40,000 pairs I would have given them to him...He didn't have to try and steal them...Working in a leader capacity I had to carry a weapon (Colt .380) and when I explained to him
and his friend you don't bring a knife to a gun fight. He really decided he didn't need (another pair) those shoes.....He probably could have won the Olympics in long distance running......I'll keep you posted if I end up there....b

Hopefully it will continue and move more into central and western oklahome, flooding would be cool...

I'm going to pretend you didn't say that.

I am really worried about this-- it could destroy what people have spent so much time, money, and effort rebuilding. I'd hate to see all that go to waste.

I have more thoughts on the subject, but they wouldn't be very popular so I'll just keep them to myself.

What I'm saying has nothing to do with what you're saying here. I realize exactly what you're saying. I saw the news reports. It was awful. And inexcusable. And that particular portion of the mess may or may not have been related to anything the Louisiana Governor did or didn't do. But there is a lot more to the disaster relief than just ice and bottled water. Or even debit cards and that mess in the Super Dome for that matter. I hear what you're saying. But I'm saying there's even more to it than that.

Hey...thanks for posting this! I've been discussing it on another board. I've been wrong about a couple of facts, so it's nice to have myself corrected. That radar image is fantastic, and the followup article is great.

That page really doesn't get into the details of what Erin did over Oklahoma. If you want the facts:

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pdf/TCR-AL052007_Erin.pdf