John Marshall Petition

[asta2]

Originally Posted by Easy180

So you formed your opinion on the school based on what race's showed up to volunteer at the school?...Seems a little presumptious to me to make that kind of decision based on the color of the volunteers helping out in the lunchroom

It is great you and the other white parents were able to schedule time off to help out, but I wouldn't hold it against the other parents that didn't...May just mean some parents are more overprotective than others

Yep, you bet I did. Overproctective? During this time JM didn't even have a lunch room. It wasn't finished until Oct I think. They were feeding 200 kids in the hallways. They were begging for help. The teachers were out numbered. I guess you wouldn't have volunteered at your child's school if you were asked? It just seemed odd to me that the major majority of the students are African American yet not one of those parents were there. You don't see a problem there? I didn't schedule time off, I went on my lunch hour. I don't think it was presumptious at all. We had a meeting the next week for all the parents attending JM. There were probably 50 families represented. There was 2 black parents there. The PTA president (a white mom from Quail), left after the first week because she could not get any response from any parent. No one has bothered to step up and take over that position. I may be wrong on that note but if they did it was recently. Tell me what opinion you would have formed? I'm also going to presume you do not have children.

[Easy180]

Originally Posted by asta2

Yep, you bet I did. Overproctective? During this time JM didn't even have a lunch room. It wasn't finished until Oct I think. They were feeding 200 kids in the hallways. They were begging for help. The teachers were out numbered. I guess you wouldn't have volunteered at your child's school if you were asked? It just seemed odd to me that the major majority of the students are African American yet not one of those parents were there. You don't see a problem there? I didn't schedule time off, I went on my lunch hour. I don't think it was presumptious at all. We had a meeting the next week for all the parents attending JM. There were probably 50 families represented. There was 2 black parents there. The PTA president (a white mom from Quail), left after the first week because she could not get any response from any parent. No one has bothered to step up and take over that position. I may be wrong on that note but if they did it was recently. Tell me what opinion you would have formed? I'm also going to presume you do not have children.

You are correct about the no kids....You went on your lunch hour...Presume you work close by?....I would venture to guess that the vast majority of people couldn't make it on their lunch hour or half hour

Not real surprised by the lack of participation at PTA meetings...If parents don't have an issue with the school then why bother?...Most probably just trust that the school employees will do their jobs...Think you place too much importance on PTA...What happens at home that matters most imo

[asta2]

Originally Posted by Easy180

You are correct about the no kids....You went on your lunch hour...Presume you work close by?....I would venture to guess that the vast majority of people couldn't make it on their lunch hour or half hour

Not real surprised by the lack of participation at PTA meetings...If parents don't have an issue with the school then why bother?...Most probably just trust that the school employees will do their jobs...Think you place too much importance on PTA...What happens at home that matters most imo

The PTA is what can make or break a school. Who do you think funds all (if any) extra's that the school has? The PTA at Quail has raised enough money to buy all new computers, Smart boards, new playground equipment, and library books. This is just a bit of what they do. The PTA backs up the teachers and applies for grants for more supplies. We have managed to supply the teachers with budgets each year to fund extras for the classroom. Quail is extremely lucky that they have a PTA and parents that give a crap. I'm sure most schools are not so lucky. So yes I put a ton of importance on the PTA. It is not the school employees job to raise my kids or teach them respect or manners. Let me try and put this in perspective for you. There were maybe 10 kids that tried to go to JM from Quail. The other 290 kids came from other schools. Most of those 10 kids had either the Mom or Dad helping at lunch. The other 580 parents were too busy, or couldn't get off of work. Nor could they be bothered to attend a meeting at 5:30. This was not a PTA meeting I was refering too. It was a meeting to let the parents know the progress of the school, metal detectors, fights, ....

If kids are not getting what they need at home who is going to give it too them? Usually it's other parents that have to step in. Parents have a responsibility to know what is going on at their school.

[Karried]

Having two kids in public school.. I agree that parent's really are the key to a quality education.

Here's a brief story of when I lived in CA .. we moved to a new neighborhood which was pretty affluent before our kids went to school (that's why we moved, so they would go to school in a good area). To our surprise, the school district decided to bus our kids to a school across town to integrate English speaking children into this Hispanic ( migrant workers, residents) school in an inpoverished area. 72% Hispanic, 18% Caucasion and Other.. it was a horrible area, dirty, covered in grafitti, and boasted the lowest test scores in the state of CA.

I couldn't do it. Education is so important to our family so I put my son in private school. After years of struggling financially my second son was ready to start school and I knew that Private school for two was going to be really hard.. so I thought of giving the public school ( across town - bussed for 40 min each way) a try.. I would drive my son.

The first day of school.. my child who had only been in private school and got in trouble for saying ' shut up' to another student... heard every swear word in the book, was threatened by a boy for not cleaning up this boy's lunch tray for him and threatened to have his face punched in... I went to the first Open House that week.. there were not many parents there and the only ones who were there were from across town. I cried every day when I dropped him off. I felt like I was throwing my child into a situation that was so counterproductive to learning.. he was scared, I was scared.. it was horrible. Suffice it to say, he was out of there so fast. I homeschooled him until we decided to move out of state.

When I arrived in Edmond, I was so thrilled to see the parental involvement. At each and every function, the parking lots are overflowing with parents trying to find a place to park to show support for their child.

And the parents and students are all of various races so I believe it is more of a socio-economic issue instead of a race issue.
I can see how it would be hard to take time off of work, miss pay, transportation issues etc if you are struggling already.

But, it seems here, nearly every parent shows up for Parent/Teacher conference. The parties are the same.. parents bring tons of goodies, come to take pictures, they are just involved and want to be a part of the school experience.

I think it has to do more with the expectations of the schools, it's a big deal if your parent shows up and signs a card at your desk.. the kids draw pictures for the parents and really look forward to having them come. I know when they get older, it's less attended, but still, parents are still really involved.

So, the point I'm trying to make is that the correlation between parental involvent and a quality educational experience is apparent ( at least to me). Parental involvement at school equals caring parents at home who encourage good study habits and completion of homework- it all points towards supporting education.

[Easy180]

Originally Posted by asta2

It is not the school employees job to raise my kids or teach them respect or manners.

If kids are not getting what they need at home who is going to give it too them? Usually it's other parents that have to step in. Parents have a responsibility to know what is going on at their school.

Not trying to be argumentative as this issue doesn't affect me whatsoever, but raising kids and teaching manners should be done at home...Really have no relevance to the lack of parent's attending meetings...You have issues with the school so you attended the meeting...Would you have attended if the issues presented didn't interest or pertain to your kids?...Maybe most parent's that skipped it aren't as alarmed as you seem to be

And for the other point listed...Really wouldn't want other parent's getting involved in my kid's upbringing.. .Most parents I know have a hard enough time with their own kids and really have no reason to get involved unless they are qualified to do so

If my kid is making good grades and is enjoying school I would be less inclined to attend these meetings....Just not my thing unless there is an issue that I am interested in getting resolved

[bandnerd]

Sure, having parental involvement is important for a school to do well...BUT, it isn't everything!

Our parents are required to give volunteer hours to the school, I think 20 every year. But there are those parents that are disabled, work two jobs, care for elderly family members, and such that aren't able to come to PTA meetings or help landscape on the weekends. From those parents, we happily accept reams of paper or boxes of kleenex, because it all helps.

Some of your more impoverished families simply do not have the time or the means to help out at a school, and certainly not during working hours. Not everyone is able to show up and wipe your kid's table down during lunch. We never have parents helping in the cafeteria...we have one or two that work in the library or the office in the afternoons, but most of the time we don't have a lot. We take what/who we can get when we can.

I take offense to people saying that they can tell what kinds of families have kids in their school just because the parents don't show up. How arrogant that attitude it. How dare someone pretend to know what these other families are dealing with.

I am not protecting JMHS in any way, but parental involvement isn't everything. What about the teachers? What about the administrators? What are they doing to improve the situation?

[CMSturgeon]

The only thing I thought might be offensive from Asta's first statement was him/her making it sound as if black people wouldn't have been in attendance from Quail Creek. My kid is only about to start preschool so I'm not going to pta meetings yet but i'm going to go to at least 2, that's more than my parents went to the whole time i was in school.

[Karried]

but parental involvement isn't everything. What about the teachers? What about the administrators? What are they doing to improve the situation?

I agree that teachers are vital but the reason I volunteer at the school is so the teacher can more effectively teach instead of having to do other things that a parent could do... ie, arrange parties, bring food, chaperone fieldtrips, help as a testing monitor, go cut and staple and do little things to free the teacher and ease some of the burden of teaching. I know my son's teacher spends hours after school grading, preparing and studying for the next day.. I'm happy to help out when I can.

I realize that a lot of parents can't help out .. but some can and choose not to.

[bandnerd]

I'm not even worried about the ability to put together a party--frankly, I find that enjoyable, anyway But asta is basically saying that the problems at this school stem mostly from parents not volunteering...sure, having parents help out at school is all fine and dandy, and it can be helpful (though there is a fine, fine line between helpful and annoying) but if the teachers don't have control of their classrooms, and the administrators are wishy-washy in their discipline style and how they run the school, then there are going to be problems.

I'm all for letting the parents raise the kids--that is most certainly not my job (most of the time) but I also realize that a lot of kids don't have it too great at home, and I supplement as best I can for them. And I have complete control of my classroom. My kids, though many are from broken homes or are from impoverished families, know their boundaries with both me and their principal. Sometimes they like to push the envelope, but one glance stops the behavior. It was something I learned from my mother, and some of my better teachers.

I don't doubt that there are some good teachers at JMHS. But I also don't doubt that there are plenty of crappy ones just letting kids slide by with bad behavior which just fuels more bad behavior.

[bandnerd]

Oh, and my parents didn't help much when I was in school. My dad was disabled from a major back injury, and my mom helped out when she could...she was actually the payroll person in the office as an outside job for awhile (she quit that after I graduated...probably saved her life, it was way too stressful but at least she was paid) and she did quite a lot with the band booster program. But she didn't want to have anything to do with the day-to-day runnings of the school, because she didn't agree with most of the administrators in their practices and most of the time she wouldn't have been able to get off work because she was our sole provider. While some people never saw her do anything, I knew she was doing what she could. But some of y'all who are saying parents need to be up at the school to wipe other kids' noses need to wake up and smell the roses and realize that not everyone is as able to just show up for daytime volunteering.

Besides, I know (and knew then, as well) that she didn't really care for a lot of the parents of our school because a lot of the people in my town were backstabbing gossipers who were always very cruel to her. They probably talked about her behind her back about how she didn't do enough for the school. They can all kiss my bootay.

And yes, I'm feeling fiesty today.

[asta2]

Originally Posted by CMSturgeon

The only thing I thought might be offensive from Asta's first statement was him/her making it sound as if black people wouldn't have been in attendance from Quail Creek. My kid is only about to start preschool so I'm not going to pta meetings yet but i'm going to go to at least 2, that's more than my parents went to the whole time i was in school.

I didn't mean it that way. Most all of the parents at Quail, Black, White, Brown, whatever, contribute in some way or at least show up to school functions. I enjoy helping out at school because it lets me get to know the kids and their parents. I want to know who my kids are hanging out with.

Yes, I want to protect my kids. I am very pro public school. But JM was not reality for us. My kids have always gone to school with a variety of races but they have never had to go through metal detectors, listen to other kids curse at the teachers during class or been afraid. That is not the real world. How often does that stuff happen to you on a daily basis? It does there.

Unfortunately other parents do have to step in and help. Why is it always the same parents at schools that do everything? I've been to many field trips or school events where I've had to take care of other kids. I've had to be the one to make them feel special or cheer them on because their parents were not there. Don't get me wrong, I've had to miss events because I had to work, but I knew my kids were taken care of by the other parents there. They know I only miss stuff in their lives if I have to. But those kids at JM seem like they are totally on their own.

I guess we have come from such a sheltered environment at Quail. JM was nothing like were used to. It scared me to death. Now I just work more instead of getting to volunteer like I used to because I have to pay for school. It makes me very angry and frustrated that it has to be like this. I am being very judgemental. I'll admit that right off. You guys are just not getting it. Those first few weeks at JM were tough for everyone. The parents really needed to step in. They didn't. Only a few did and they could not do it alone. This was not something that had to be done everyday or probably in the future. It was a situation that needed attention right then. 99% of the parents ignored it. That told me a lot about the people that were going there. I'm not saying those parents needed to be there everyday the whole year. Most of the major problems have been resolved as we had hoped. The teachers and principles did everything they could. They were great. Not one of them faulted us for leaving. They all said they would have done the same thing. I fought hard to get that school. I feel like the surrounding neighborhoods as a whole failed them. I feel like I failed them for leaving. Thats all I have to say on this. Thanks for letting me vent.

[writerranger]

Asta, I think you did what you could. There are a lot of problems at John Marshall and as long as people tip-toe around the causes and not address the thugs and the ghetto culture - nothing will change. That won't happen because it would take too much truth-telling to ever be accepted by those who would see it as "racism." At least some things are being addressed, but the root cause is too controversial to tackle in this PC culture we live in.

-------------------

[TomGirl]

My munchkin will be going to Quail Creek next year, after that? PRIVATE SCHOOL! I'm one of those overprotective ones.....and I can live with that!

[Easy180]

Private school is nice and all if you can afford it, but there are issues there as well even if they don't have metal detectors...Drug use is likely a big problem there since money floats around much easier with wealthier kids and their easy access to it...So....Less fights, but easier access to drugs...Either way still dealing with teens

Of course nobody's kids would ever get caught up in that deviant behavior

[jbrown84]

Yeah, with private schools, it's not the out in the open stuff, it's the stuff they do secretly.

[Deni]

As a former teacher and a parent now for 16 years. teaching your kids at home is the first step I agree. But you also need to show your child that you are involved in every aspect of your life. For the person that says you dont need to be involved at school for your kid to get a good education I DISAGREE!!!!!

You should always always be a good cheerleader when your child is doing good and their worst nightmare when they are doing bad.. I have taught my daughter this over her school age. She knows I will back her when she is right, but I will back the teacher if she is wrong.

I feel soory for those people that DONT make time for their children, dont give me that crap that you cant. I am a single mom, own my business, work 65 hours a week and my daughter knows I am more involved than stay at home parents.
Call the school at least once a week check on your kids.

[Easy180]

Originally Posted by HOTTCUTZ

As a former teacher and a parent now for 16 years. teaching your kids at home is the first step I agree. But you also need to show your child that you are involved in every aspect of your life. For the person that says you dont need to be involved at school for your kid to get a good education I DISAGREE!!!!!

You should always always be a good cheerleader when your child is doing good and their worst nightmare when they are doing bad.. I have taught my daughter this over her school age. She knows I will back her when she is right, but I will back the teacher if she is wrong.

I feel soory for those people that DONT make time for their children, dont give me that crap that you cant. I am a single mom, own my business, work 65 hours a week and my daughter knows I am more involved than stay at home parents.
Call the school at least once a week check on your kids.

Well I guess there really wasn't ever a reason for my mom to get involved...Always brought home good grades and never in trouble in school (Waited til after school to get in trouble)

So for some kids...Really no need for their parents to get involved...Told my brother and I the importance of good grades...Bout all the rah rah we needed

[Deni]

I agree Easy that was my point... She made sure you knew the importance of good grades

[krissy]

As a mom of 3 I am very concerned about my options regarding high school. How does everyone feel about the task force that the public schools have put together? Do you think that it is going to make a difference?

Krissy

[Tim]

Gee I hope so! My mom retired from teaching years ago, and her chief complaint was that "Parents expect us to do in seven hours what they haven't done in seventeen years!" Maybe it's time to demand appropriate parental responsibility.

[CCOKC]

Thursday, I did something I never thought I would do. I enrolled my teenagers in a city public school. We are moving back to the city from Boise after school is out in May. I gave them the choice between McGuinness and Harding Charter School and they both chose Harding hands down. They have never attended public schools.(And neither have I for that matter). They both have quite a few good friends at both schools so this was not an issue. They both were impressed when they met a kid in the library who is a senior and will be going to college next year with 35 credit hours due to AP Courses. Also, as a parent I had to sign a contract that my husband and I will commit to 25 hours of community service a year. Now I know that some people on this board have suggested that this may be too hard for some parents to do. I totally agree that it is hard. The principal told me that basically anytime we come to any function of the school we get credit for the hours. They just want to make sure the parents are around and are involved. When we called the school telling them that we were interested we were informed we did not need an appointment, just show up and we would get a tour. Which is exactly what happened when my kids toured the school with my mother and when we went back a few days later to enroll. We all felt very safe and welcome in the school which is in a very different neighborhood than the new John Marshall for sure. I was very skeptical at first but came away very impressed. My mother felt the same way which is saying something since she was a psychometrist for OKC schools when I was going to school and would not even consider my sister or I going to public schools. All I am suggesting here that in my experiences, the more involved the parents are about their childrens' schools, the bettter for the children.

[bandnerd]

^^^^^ Yay! That's my school! My students are all excited reading this over my shoulder.

I think I may be giving the wrong impression of my school...we are waiting for our newspaper to be printed so it's a slow day in the Journalism lab :P

[CCOKC]

Cool, I can't wait for next year. I think it will be great!

[asta2]

[quote=krissy;91696]As a mom of 3 I am very concerned about my options regarding high school. How does everyone feel about the task force that the public schools have put together? Do you think that it is going to make a difference?


I guess we'll all find out. There is a school board meeting tonight at 5. The petitions will be presented. Honestly I'm not sure what the answer is. I just wanted my kids to be able to go to the beautiful new high school down the street. I have a daughter starting McGuiness in the fall. We chose the private options over the better public schools because of sports. I know it's not that important in the big picture but sports are a big part of their lives.

[krissy]

Does anyone know what the task force hopes to accomplish for the new John Marshall?