Segregated or De-segregated schools

What's better, segregated or de-segregated schools? If we try to de-segregate schools, won't people naturally try to segregate themselves anyways?

[bandnerd]

Schools already ARE de-segregated. And yes, groups will always segregate themselves. The phrase "Birds of a feather flock together" wasn't coined for no real reason. I notice it in my school--Hispanics with Hispanics, Blacks with Blacks, preppy kids with other preppy kids, goths, etc. It's not just cultural minorities, however; other types of groups like the preppy kids and the goth kids segregate themselves, as well.

I have noticed, though, that when the time comes, the kids all rally together regardless of race or status. I think that's when it is more important anyway. Who cares what lunch table they sit at?

Also, once a month, we have a "dress up day" where the kids don their best church-type clothes, and we make them sit at assigned tables. The names are drawn at random, of course, the STUCO does it (a group that is very diverse, actually) and the kids have to eat lunch that one time a month with someone new. Some complain, but they'll see the benefits later. Teenagers are very short-sided.

The whole idea of de-segregation back in the 1960's was to try to give blacks equal opportunities as whites. Many said that black schools weren't as nice as white schools, and to some extent they were right. But, desegregation didn't really work. Whites simply moved out of the OKC Public School System and moved to PC, Edmond, Moore, etc. They naturally segregated themselves.

I think in this day and age, everyone is given the opportunity to get a decent education if they so desire. If a black student doesn't like going to Douglass High School (one of the nicer facilities in the city), he/she can apply to Classen School of Advanced Studies or Harding Charter School, or something like that....if he/she has the grades.

Most of what's holding blacks back in today's society isn't equal opportunity. In fact, IMO, blacks are given more opportunities than whites. Ever tried to apply for scholarship for college? I noticed blacks had tons of opportunities, that I didn't have.

What's holding up blacks is lack of effort. Blacks can become successful if they put in the effort and are willing to learn like whites. Problem is cultures are different, and blacks are still lagging behind because of it.

[adaniel]

Hello Patrick,
I rarely ever post here but I ran into your survey and saw your post on school segregation. As someone who is black (actually half black and half Cherokee) I think I can chime in.

First off, you say that blacks have money thrown at them to go to college. I acutally got a major scholarship, but it was because I worked my rear off in high school. At the scholarship ceremony, I can tell you I was the only black kid. Not that I cared or anything. Not trying to be rude, but it just gets under my skin when I tell whites that I got a scholarship in college and they just assume I'm some moron and I only got it becuase I'm a minority. From casual observation, there are very few minority scholarships left. Personally, thats okay with me because scholarships should be based on merit first.

I actually do agree with you on other points. The black community in this country is very bifurcated. On one end you have blacks living successful middle class lifestyles. On the other you have blacks that are stuck in the inner city with no motivation to get out. I don't think they're lazy, but they have an attitude that what was successful in the past will be successful today. Blacks also have a bad habit of electing awful leaders (the Opie guy in the State House comes to mind) who have no new fresh ideas.

As for the schools, I have relatives who attended Douglas and Millwood. They made very good grades and had the intelligence to know their respective schools were terrible. Transferring is not as simple as you would think. Fortunately they had good heads and are leading successful lives in Edmond, but a lot of smart kids who went to those schools end up like their poverty-stricken parents. Again it boils down to electing and putting trust in bad leadership. You’re not going to improve anything by putting your kids future in the hands of old status quo from the 1960's.

De-facto segregation has and will always occur by race and economic status. Just look at the rich whites at Edmond North versus the poor whites at Del City. The best thing to do is to make sure that education is even across the board so at least the kids that want to succeed have the chance.

Whew, some rant here!!

[ibda12u]

Originally Posted by Patrick

Most of what's holding blacks back in today's society isn't equal opportunity. In fact, IMO, blacks are given more opportunities than whites. Ever tried to apply for scholarship for college? I noticed blacks had tons of opportunities, that I didn't have.

What's holding up blacks is lack of effort. Blacks can become successful if they put in the effort and are willing to learn like whites. Problem is cultures are different, and blacks are still lagging behind because of it.

I like adaniel, am black, and I am disappointed at the assumption, that "blacks are lazy". While I agree that the majority of blacks portrayed by tv culture, or in certain area's of the city, may be struggling, or even unfortunatly comfortable in whatever state they have found themselves in. It isn't a representation of all black people. Just like Ray Nagin, or Jesse Jackson doesn't speak for or represent all black people, less fortunate, and rednecks whites don't represent all white people.

I would hope that people would one day learn to know people as individuals and not by a representation from MTV, or BET, or a few area's on 23rd street.

Originally Posted by bandnerd

Schools already ARE de-segregated. And yes, groups will always segregate themselves. The phrase "Birds of a feather flock together" wasn't coined for no real reason. I notice it in my school--Hispanics with Hispanics, Blacks with Blacks, preppy kids with other preppy kids, goths, etc. It's not just cultural minorities, however; other types of groups like the preppy kids and the goth kids segregate themselves, as well.

I have noticed, though, that when the time comes, the kids all rally together regardless of race or status. I think that's when it is more important anyway. Who cares what lunch table they sit at?

Also, once a month, we have a "dress up day" where the kids don their best church-type clothes, and we make them sit at assigned tables. The names are drawn at random, of course, the STUCO does it (a group that is very diverse, actually) and the kids have to eat lunch that one time a month with someone new. Some complain, but they'll see the benefits later. Teenagers are very short-sided.

Ummmm. Let's see. Your first statement was that schools are de-segregated. Then you make a case that students segregate themselves. I'm lost.

Go up to Edmond and then go to Douglass and tell me if schools are really de-segregated.

Blacks used to get points added onto to their ASFAB test for simply being black. Oh, and don't forget that it's my fault that their family members were slaves. Yeah, that's equality.
Native Americans get money to go to college because I stole their land. Yeah, that's equality.

[MadMonk]

Originally Posted by Survey

Blacks used to get points added onto to their ASFAB test for simply being black. Oh, and don't forget that it's my fault that their family members were slaves. Yeah, that's equality.
Native Americans get money to go to college because I stole their land. Yeah, that's equality.

Wow, and you call people who live in Edmond racists!

[fromdust]

Originally Posted by MadMonk

Wow, and you call people who live in Edmond racists!

dont think that was racist. seemed like a good point, though.

[davido]

[quote=Patrick]The whole idea of de-segregation back in the 1960's was to try to give blacks equal opportunities as whites. Many said that black schools weren't as nice as white schools, and to some extent they were right. But, desegregation didn't really work. Whites simply moved out of the OKC Public School System and moved to PC, Edmond, Moore, etc. They naturally segregated themselves.

You are exactly Correct, My parents moved out of OKC in 1970 to piedmont for that reason.