Privatizing all schools?

What would everyone think of going to a complete voucher program, where every school is privatized and there are no public schools? Thus, you have a choice of where you want to send your children to school.

[mranderson]

I do not want low income children being given what amounts to a scholarship to private school. The upper income people worked too hard to earn the right to send their kids to finer schools.

[okieopus]

Private Schools are a choice
Public schools are a right.

So all upper income people "earned" the money they have?

I think if we went to a complete voucher program, public schools would improve because they'd be held more accountable for the way they handled their money.

[okieopus]

I think we are putting a lot of faith in school choice as the solution to public education's woes. The whole concept of public education was built on the fact that education should not just be for the wealthy elite.

Going to a complete voucher system would still leave out the poor and low income. Imagine it this way. The parents who can afford to take their children (and consequently their voucher and money) to the better performing school will do so. What happens to the kid who has parents who can't afford a car to take their kids to the better school. The result would be that all the rich kids get to go to the better schools, and the poor innercity kids are left with the lowfunded schools.

America and public education is about lifting people up. We already have a class based society a complete voucher system would only make this problem even worse.

The solution, reward teachers and school districts for good performance, but don't cut their funding based on test scores. If parents can afford to send their kids to private schools that’s great, but quality public education is a fundamental right for everyone regardless of income.

[mranderson]

Originally Posted by okieopus

Private Schools are a choice
Public schools are a right.

So all upper income people "earned" the money they have?

I agree with the first two comments. The answer to the third. Yes. It may be several generations ago, however, all upper class earned every dime.

[Karried]

Originally Posted by mranderson

I agree with the first two comments. The answer to the third. Yes. It may be several generations ago, however, all upper class earned every dime.

Oh my goodness, I'm almost speechless.

I have never heard anything more absurd. Upper class earned every dime??? Hmmmmmmm, where to begin? How about white collar crime including embezzelment and or stealing from private investors? How about winnings from gambling? How about questionable inheritance from long lost relatives? Marrying into wealth?

Now, all the offspring of these people deserve a quality private education when the poor working class people who probably work harder than all of us put together have to struggle to pay for public school supplies?

Earned? Hardly.... There are many people who are newly rich or wealthy from sources other than earning every dime. Just because Uncle Richie Rich or Daddy made some money in the past doesn't make people 'better than thou' and give them the right to look down on others or penalize the kids who weren't as lucky.

Just because lower income children were born into a family that doesn't offer instant wealth, it doesn't mean they are not entitled to a quality education.

[asta2]

Originally Posted by mranderson

I do not want low income children being given what amounts to a scholarship to private school. The upper income people worked too hard to earn the right to send their kids to finer schools.

I'm trying to figure out how to respond to this! A low income child does not deserve a good education to a private school because his mom and dad can't afford it. This child will remain a low income child and adult because the cycle has started. I work my ass off too and yet I can't afford to send 3 kids to Casady. I have a degree and have a good job. So you want to keep all the lower income kids as far away from you as possible? I hope you cross my path some day.

[mranderson]

Originally Posted by asta2

I'm trying to figure out how to respond to this! A low income child does not deserve a good education to a private school because his mom and dad can't afford it. This child will remain a low income child and adult because the cycle has started. I work my ass off too and yet I can't afford to send 3 kids to Casady. I have a degree and have a good job. So you want to keep all the lower income kids as far away from you as possible? I hope you cross my path some day.

Not neccessarily. My mom came from dirt poor parents and before she married my dad owned a very successful restaurant in Ponca City.

And my dad's parents were not exactly wealthy either. Not dirt poor, but far from wealthy. My dad started a business that grew to be the largest in his specialty.

Neither went to private schools. A child CAN make it without private school. They just need to work hard, get high grades in school, learn disipline and respect, and if the parents can not afford a college education, get a scholarship. Or, save every dime possible (even if it means working more than one job) and start their own business. If they want it, they can get it. It just takes hard work.

[PUGalicious]

Originally Posted by mranderson

I do not want low income children being given what amounts to a scholarship to private school. The upper income people worked too hard to earn the right to send their kids to finer schools.

Originally Posted by mranderson

It may be several generations ago, however, all upper class earned every dime.

Originally Posted by mranderson

A child CAN make it without private school. They just need to work hard, get high grades in school, learn disipline and respect, and if the parents can not afford a college education, get a scholarship. Or, save every dime possible (even if it means working more than one job) and start their own business. If they want it, they can get it. It just takes hard work.

All this is good educational material that could be helpful information to constituents in the district of any potential city council member.

[mranderson]

Originally Posted by Scribe

All this is good educational material that could be helpful information to constituents of any potential city council member.

I am not following your logic. Please explain.

[PUGalicious]

I don't believe vouchers is necessarily the answer. I do think better funding of education, making it the priority it really should be, is the true answer.

Furthermore, I believe that if we want this nation to be able to compete in the years to come, we have to get more serious about quality education from kindergarten through college.

If we want to restrict the "better" education to only those that can afford it, we will continue the widening gap between the wealthy and the impoverished in this country.

[mranderson]

"If we want to restrict the "better" education to only those that can afford it, we will continue the widening gap between the wealthy and the impoverished in this country."

Not if the lower income people would get off their duffs and work hard to save money to improve their lives instead of crying for hand outs all the time.

Private schools are an earned privlidge not a right. Next thing you know, the lower income people will be demanding vouchers for first class airfare. Private schools are a perk for the hard work most wealthy people have done to get that way.

[PUGalicious]

Originally Posted by mranderson

"If we want to restrict the "better" education to only those that can afford it, we will continue the widening gap between the wealthy and the impoverished in this country."

Not if the lower income people would get off their duffs and work hard to save money to improve their lives instead of crying for hand outs all the time.

Private schools are an earned privlidge not a right. Next thing you know, the lower income people will be demanding vouchers for first class airfare. Private schools are a perk for the hard work most wealthy people have done to get that way.

There are so many things wrong with these statements, it's hard to know where to begin. If you would like a long, detailed rebuttal on each of your statements, let me know. I'll take the time to compile the supporting documentation that will illustrate the ignorance of such logic.

[okieopus]

Mr. Anderson, you clearly have no concept of the working poor.

The equation is pretty simple... 40 hours a week at $5.15 an hour, working 52 weeks = $10,712 a year. That equation assumes that the person works every day with no vacation.

Add in food, childcare, transportation and rent and you are left with very little. Most low income people work 40 or more hours a week. However, it is very hard to save money when every sent of the paycheck goes to living day to day.

Asking lower income people to "get off their duffs and work hard" is one of the most offensive things you have posted yet.

May I suggest you read "Nickel and Dimed in America" by Barbara Ehrenreich.

[mranderson]

Originally Posted by Scribe

There are so many things wrong with these statements, it's hard to know where to begin. If you would like a long, detailed rebuttal on each of your statements, let me know. I'll take the time to compile the supporting documentation that will illustrate the ignorance of such logic.

That will not change my mind. I believe in working for what you get. Vouchers are not the answer, so, if I am the reason you want to publish liberal brainwash blather, then, do not bother.

[PUGalicious]

Originally Posted by mranderson

That will not change my mind. I believe in working for what you get. Vouchers are not the answer, so, if I am the reason you want to publish liberal brainwash blather, then, do not bother.

You have not even heard/read the information I could have shared, yet you've already prejudged the accuracy, integrity and validity of the information?

Tsk, tsk, mranderson. That's very closed-minded to pre-judge something before you've allowed others to share their viewpoint. Some call that prejudice... or bigotry. Certainly not an admirable trait of one who describes himself as "Future Ward Five City Councilman".

[Karried]

I'm looking out my window and watching these poor (low income) workers framing a 400K home in nearly 100 degree weather - working their asses off. I can guarantee that they are working 10 times harder than those sitting at computers at work surfing the net (while they should be working by the way) in their climate controlled environments.

Of course, they will be lucky to make it home in their used vehicles and even luckier to provide a good meal to their kids tonight - let alone health care and saving for the future - private education is a dream their kids will never realize - and they most likely will end up under educated and living a life similar to their parents.

I wouldn't dream of saying that low income workers don't work hard - they just haven't had the good fortune to be born into wealth... if they had, they would have gone to private schools, got an education and gotten a job paying more than minimum wage.

[asta2]

Originally Posted by mranderson

Not neccessarily. My mom came from dirt poor parents and before she married my dad owned a very successful restaurant in Ponca City.

And my dad's parents were not exactly wealthy either. Not dirt poor, but far from wealthy. My dad started a business that grew to be the largest in his specialty.

Neither went to private schools. A child CAN make it without private school. They just need to work hard, get high grades in school, learn disipline and respect, and if the parents can not afford a college education, get a scholarship. Or, save every dime possible (even if it means working more than one job) and start their own business. If they want it, they can get it. It just takes hard work.

Oh yes I agree, however the previous poster was implying that poor kids don't "deserve" to go to private schools. Each child "deserves" the same. A rich kid in no more entitled to the better things in life than a poor kid. What makes a rich kid any different? Besides most of them are spoiled. I'm not against spoiled kids because mne are probably very spoiled in some people's views. Why shouldn't poor kids have the same education?

I went to play tennis the other day at Casady with a friend of mine whose son attends there. I could not help thinking how unfair it is as I looked around the facilities. My kids attend one of the best "public" elementary schools in OKC yet the cafeteria doubles as the gym ( you can imagine the smell that emanates from there). The computer lab is nothing more than a large storage closet. I mean that literally. It was a storage closet. So because I can't afford it my kids get the short end of the deal. It just seems to me that all that private tuition pretty much goes to supporting the facilities. I mean are their test scores any higher? Much of what I've heard is that they are not. I find that very comforting to know! Does anyone know what the difference in test scores are?

[mranderson]

I come from the Country Club set. In fact, my family belonged to three. Two in Oklahoma City and one in Ponca City. On occasion, a person from a lower class environment would come by and ask to play a round of golf. They were not allowed to because they were not members and not guests. They just went on their way and said nothing.

The point is simple. Wealthy people do not hang out at the Y because they do not fit in. Less than wealthy people have no business out of their element either. They just do not have the proper skills to bond with each other.

A wealthy person does not "chill with the homies" and a less than wealthy person does not discuss the latest market trends.

If a person less than wealthy wants to act wealthy, then they can work for it. Private schools are not a right... They are a right of passage. You enter them the old fashoined way... "You ea-a-a-arn it."

[okieopus]

Mr. Anderson...what you are describing is not the vision our founding fathers had for this country.

May I suggest India, as these coments would fit in better in a society with a rigid caste system.

What do you have against people who don't have as much money as you do? You continually bash the poor in these postings. Im just wondering where thats coming from.

[mranderson]

Originally Posted by okieopus

Mr. Anderson...what you are describing is not the vision our founding fathers had for this country.

May I suggest India, as these coments would fit in better in a society with a rigid caste system.

What do you have against people who don't have as much money as you do? You continually bash the poor in these postings. Im just wondering where thats coming from.

Bashing? No. I am just telling it the way it is. Plus. My family has given many people you describe as "poor" jobs. Many of those worked their tails off and gained financial ground.

[Karried]

A wealthy person does not "chill with the homies" and a less than wealthy person does not discuss the latest market trends.

I'm less than wealthy and I spend the majority of my day discussing latest market trends.

Oh my, I'm learning so many new things about posters on this board. I can't believe in this day and age that class separation is even being discussed... people with money don't go around stating things like the above post.

Mr A, it's too bad that the money spent on golf and country clubs wasn't applied to education. You mentioned that you feel your education was lacking and you weren't taught even basic English skills through our public schools - it's amazing that if your family is so very wealthy that they would settle for sub par public education and allow you to mingle with the lower class. You obviously feel that you were entitled to a private education - I'm wondering why you weren't enrolled?

By the way, what is your definition of wealth?

Just like age doesn't guarantee wisdom, money does not equal class.

[sweetdaisy]

Mr Anderson, with all your infinate "wisdom" that you claim to have, I am absolutely baffled that you could say any of this. I'm actually hoping that you are kidding.

In addition, I cannot believe you have such little sense to post this kind of stuff on a public site where any of your potential voters could see it. It frightens me that this is the kind of leadership we can look forward to.

This is like watching a train wreck, and I think it's time for me to stop looking at it.

[okieopus]

I am glad he is honest about how he feels. I want to know how people really feel before I vote for them (or in Mr. Anderson's case, Not Vote)