Pledge of Allegiance?

Should schools require students to quote the pledge of allegiance? Is the phrase "under God" promoting religion in schools? Your thoughts?

I think the decision should be left in the hands of the induvidual student. We shouldn't take under god out just to please the handfull of non-christian belivers.

We need to teach are kids to respect all religions. Removing one religion for another or banning religion period is not the answer.

I think these people that are out on a mission to remove god from everything are nothing more than people that have lost touch with thier faith.

I don't care who you are, you have or had a spiriual belief in your life.

Policies requiring respect for each religion is the answer not abandonment.

[Luke]

If we take out any part of the pledge, how about the word right after "under God"... "indivisible." Because we, as a country sure aren't living up to that one.

But, as for "under God"... If we were to remove all semblance of "religion" from our country's public places, nearly every public building in Washington DC would have to be sandblasted. For those who are intolerant towards religion (or just the mention of the word "God" apparently) need to look at it as part of our history and tradition.

[Midtowner]

Originally Posted by Luke

If we take out any part of the pledge, how about the word right after "under God"... "indivisible." Because we, as a country sure aren't living up to that one.

But, as for "under God"... If we were to remove all semblance of "religion" from our country's public places, nearly every public building in Washington DC would have to be sandblasted. For those who are intolerant towards religion (or just the mention of the word "God" apparently) need to look at it as part of our history and tradition.

Believe it or not, there are lots of folks (myself included) that recognize that this is not the country it was 200 years ago. Our religious values as a society are not the same as they were. We have become a far more secular society.

I'm 100% in favor of a completely secular government. Yes, we need prayer out of congress, we need references to God or whatever off of our public buildings, etc.

Indivisible is not talking about marriages. It's talking about the fact that the union of the states is indivisible. This fact was proved by the Civil War.

History and tradition are not things that justify themselves. It wouldn't bother me if these things were to be off of currency, etc. It's not something I'll change my vote over (in other words, it's not going to make me vote for a Democrat), but it's something I wouldn't mind seeing.

I have to agree with the points that oklacity75 and Luke made. We do need to teach children to respect all religions, even if they don’t agree with them. There are many that I disagree with, but I respect them for their beliefs. If the child does not want to recite the Pledge of Allegiance, because they feel some of the words are offensive, then I believe that is their right. They take a chance of having their friends laugh at them and make fun of them, but that’s already happening to Christians who are trying to protect our religious freedoms.

The ones that are trying to remove “under God,” from the pledge are very much part of the minority, yet, for some reason, they make national headlines. If they take “under God” out of the pledge, then I feel they should do away with the pledge, because all parts of the pledge are important to our heritage and our country, and if you take one part out, then you might as well take it all out.


As Luke said, at this time our country isn’t living up to the words “indivisible.” We are so divided right now, mainly because God has been taken out of too many things. Too many people take too many things for granted in this country, and they don’t realize how fortunate they are to be living in a country based on Christian principles and freedoms.

[Midtowner]

Originally Posted by keith

The ones that are trying to remove “under God,” from the pledge are very much part of the minority, yet, for some reason, they make national headlines. If they take “under God” out of the pledge, then I feel they should do away with the pledge, because all parts of the pledge are important to our heritage and our country, and if you take one part out, then you might as well take it all out.

Actually, "Under God" was only added in the 1950's either under Eisenhower or Truman. It's not as connected to our history as you might think.

[Luke]

I would say that since most US citizens believe in "God", whomever that may be, that we should keep it. The minority of Atheists shouldn't force their views on the majority. Atheism is a belief system that should be treated the same as any other belief system. And while Atheists wouldn't admit belief in a particular God, they are essentially placing themselves in the position of God by not acknowledging anyone higher than themselves. Their pre-suppositions are such that no acknowledgement of a God is necessary. They then become their own "God."

with you, Luke. The question is, who do they go to if they have a problem that needs more help than a human can give them?

Someone once told me that if athiests don't believe in God, then they need to quit breathing the air he created .

[Midtowner]

Originally Posted by Luke

I would say that since most US citizens believe in "God", whomever that may be, that we should keep it. The minority of Atheists shouldn't force their views on the majority. Atheism is a belief system that should be treated the same as any other belief system. And while Atheists wouldn't admit belief in a particular God, they are essentially placing themselves in the position of God by not acknowledging anyone higher than themselves. Their pre-suppositions are such that no acknowledgement of a God is necessary. They then become their own "God."

I'm not an athiest. However, I do believe in a purely secular government. I feel that certain things -- religion being one of them should be personal, private experiences. Not experiences that are encouraged or effected in any way by the government.

How is it necessary to acknowledge God in currency and pledges? I think it's a violation of what we understand the 1st Amendment today to say.

The United States is set up in such a way that 'mob rule' does not rule the day. Our founding fathers set us up as a Democratic Republic for that very reason. Just as the minority shouldn't force their views upon the majority, the majority has just as little right to force their views upon the minority.

As far as your attack on athiesm goes, save it for another thread. It has nothing to do with this topic.

[mranderson]

America needs to go back to a lot of traditions. One is allowing the pledge of alegiance to stay as it has been for what may be my entire life.

[Midtowner]

Originally Posted by mranderson

America needs to go back to a lot of traditions. One is allowing the pledge of alegiance to stay as it has been for what may be my entire life.

How about the way that it was during most of your parents' lives?

(for the historically challenged, that means without the "Under God" statement").

None of those phrases bother me. Coming from an 'I have no idea what lies beyond death' viewpoint, I still don't feel that having these phrases do any harm to our society. But I suppose it's not fair to all religions - how would we feel if it was "...one nation, under Allah..."? Even with my 'no-belief', if it were put to a vote, I'd vote to leave everything how it is.

And as far as atheists not breathing the air God created, God must have created the atheist as well. Would be kinda cruel for Him to create an atheist then not want him to breath.

And a bit off topic but on the atheist thing, by saying that they are placing themselves in the position of God would mean that in turn, they believe in a God. Which they don't... They probably feel that the only significance man holds is being on top of the food chain.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Midtowner

I'm not an athiest. However, I do believe in a purely secular government. I feel that certain things -- religion being one of them should be personal, private experiences. Not experiences that are encouraged or effected in any way by the government.

I feel the same way about sexual relationships and sexual orientation. Yet that doesn't stop the government from being involved with those issues.

How is it necessary to acknowledge God in currency and pledges? I think it's a violation of what we understand the 1st Amendment today to say.

Did you know the the Washington Monument has a Bible as it's cornerstone? That the Lincoln Memorial has six references to God? That the Supreme Court has the Ten Commandments inscribed four times in the building? That the Declaration of Independence refers to a Creator who gives us unalienable rights? That the Library of Congress, Jefferson Memorial and White House all have references to God? The Capitol has the word "God" carved into entrances, painted on walls and has paintings with Angels and Bibles in them?

Do say that the majority of our founding fathers violated and misunderstood the First Amendment?

The United States is set up in such a way that 'mob rule' does not rule the day.

Thank God (no pun intended).

Our founding fathers set us up as a Democratic Republic for that very reason. Just as the minority shouldn't force their views upon the majority, the majority has just as little right to force their views upon the minority.

I agree. We have to find a balance. Unfortunately, as long as it's such a black and white issue, I don't see a resolution anytime soon.

Originally Posted by Floating_adrift

None of those phrases bother me. Coming from an 'I have no idea what lies beyond death' viewpoint, I still don't feel that having these phrases do any harm to our society. But I suppose it's not fair to all religions - how would we feel if it was "...one nation, under Allah..."? Even with my 'no-belief', if it were put to a vote, I'd vote to leave everything how it is.

God is a univsersal title for the god of any religion. Thus, it applies to Islam as well. The only religion it doesn't apply to is atheism, which is an extreme minority. Less than 1% of the population.

This wasn't intended to be a religious debate. The question was whether you tink children should be required to quote the pledge of allegiance. Your thoughts?

This nation was founded on the principles of Christianity. Our legal system was based on the 10 commandments. If you don't believe it , read Luke's post. The Supreme Court Building has the 10 commandments plastered all over it.

And America was settled as an advancement to the christian religion.

[Midtowner]

Originally Posted by Sooner&RiceGrad

And America was settled as an advancement to the christian religion.

As well as a place where farmers could keep slaves to work their crops. That has changed, and so have other societal objectives. I live in Oklahoma City, 2005, not Plymouth in 1620.