Public Schools or Private Schools?

[mranderson]

Originally Posted by Midtowner

Okay, thank you for your tour of the completely irrelevant.

If it makes you feel better, let's take a graduate of Western Heights vs. Bishop McGuinness. They are both 25 years of age, neither with post-HS education.

They are applying for the same position.

Do their HS educations -- one obviously better than the other even enter into the picture?

You graduated from McGuiness, and are either 25 or close to it, correct? We are not going to get in to a bragging war. You are trying to tell people you are better than I am. Not exactly accurate.

Now. We all know how much YOU think of YOUR education in comparison to others. Now. Back on topic, please.

[Midtowner]

Originally Posted by mranderson

You graduated from McGuiness, and are either 25 or close to it, correct? We are not going to get in to a bragging war. You are trying to tell people you are better than I am. Not exactly accurate.

Now. We all know how much YOU think of YOUR education in comparison to others. Now. Back on topic, please.

I went to McGuiness for 3 years, but I graduated from Edmond North High School -- they had better Advanced Placement programs as well as concurrent enrollment at UCO. In 1997, I guess you could make a pretty solid case that North had better programs available than McGuinness, at least for advanced students.

But yeah, I don't think many people would argue that McGuinness offers a better educational opportunity than Western Heights does.

So then let's go back to Casady vs. Western Heights. Could you possibly not take it as a personal insult?

Considering things you've said to me in PM, despite the age difference you keep pointing out, it seems I'm the only one here that's not loosing my composure. You're coming off as awfully insecure for one of your advanced age and experience. Seriously... wanting to pick a fight with me about High schools? What the heck?

Just answer the question.

[mranderson]

Originally Posted by Midtowner

I went to McGuiness for 3 years, but I graduated from Edmond North High School -- they had better Advanced Placement programs as well as concurrent enrollment at UCO. In 1997, I guess you could make a pretty solid case that North had better programs available than McGuinness, at least for advanced students.

But yeah, I don't think many people would argue that McGuinness offers a better educational opportunity than Western Heights does.

So then let's go back to Casady vs. Western Heights. Could you possibly not take it as a personal insult?

Considering things you've said to me in PM, despite the age difference you keep pointing out, it seems I'm the only one here that's not loosing my composure. You're coming off as awfully insecure for one of your advanced age and experience. Seriously... wanting to pick a fight with me about High schools? What the heck?

Just answer the question.

No. You accused my high school of being full of uneduated idiots from the day it was first built, then used an example that obviously makes you think you are the God of geniuses when in fact, you know nothing about the history of US Grant because when I was there you were not even born. You may have gone to a well known private school, however, that does not mean you are the most intellegent person on earth, and that southside schools are inferior. I am defending my turf and that is all. Plus, I gave you several examples of people that have excelled at Grant. You are always busting people's chops for not citing examples, however, when they do and prove their point, you are still not satisfied. Face it and admit it. US Grant has been a fine school and has seen many excellent people graduate.

By the way. No matter where you graduated, at what number did you do so? Remember. I graduated seventh out of over 700.

Now. May we return to the topic? By the way. If you look at all my past messages and answer the questions I asked you that you failed to answer (there are many), then maybe I will answer your question. Oh. To find out what those questions are... to quoute you, "look it up."

[Midtowner]

Originally Posted by mranderson

No. You accused my high school of being full of uneduated idiots from the day it was first built, then used an example that obviously makes you think you are the God of geniuses when in fact, you know nothing about the history of US Grant because when I was there you were not even born. You may have gone to a well known private school, however, that does not mean you are the most intellegent person on earth, and that southside schools are inferior. I am defending my turf and that is all. Plus, I gave you several examples of people that have excelled at Grant. You are always busting people's chops for not citing examples, however, when they do and prove their point, you are still not satisfied. Face it and admit it. US Grant has been a fine school and has seen many excellent people graduate.

Distortion again... You must either be extremely emotional at this point or senile.. which is it? I simply gave Grant as an example of a perennial underachieving school, which it is today by any measurement, especially when compared with say... Casady from my first example. What you are doing here is digging (real deep) to find some grounds for me to have personally attacked you. No buddy, you're sadly mistaken yet again.

By the way. No matter where you graduated, at what number did you do so? Remember. I graduated seventh out of over 700.

Boy.. you want to measure penis size next? I graduated HS 8 years ago.. you.. 30? I think the pointlessness and inapplicability of that question digs at the very heart of what I'm getting at here -- whether you were the valedvictorian of your high school class is completely irrelevant the day you set foot on a college campus. Whether you had a 4.0 from Harvard or Panhandle State has little bearing once you've landed that first job. From that point, all employers are interested in is whether you sink or swim -- the bottom line.

Perhaps the Harvard student finds themselves better equipped for certain situations. I have a cousin that graduated with an MBA from Harvard who has been mildly successful down in Houston. On the other hand, my firm represents people who never finished college and are worth 7 figures. Do their clients ask to see their diplomas before asking for their services? Nope.

Now. May we return to the topic? By the way. If you look at all my past messages and answer the questions I asked you that you failed to answer (there are many), then maybe I will answer your question. Oh. To find out what those questions are... to quoute you, "look it up."

I think I have been on topic. You seem obsessed with trying to prove I insulted you. Even to the point of PMing me things that could easily be construed as personal attacks.

As for your last statement -- is that a statement, a demand, what?

For about 5 messages, all I have asked is a very simple question, which for some reason you refuse to answer. Either you lack the ability to admit something you don't want to admit, or you lack the intellectual capacity to understand what I'm asking.

[hailmary57yd]

Private schools such as Harvard. Yale and other Ivy League schools are good. You don't have to study in class that has roughly 200 or 300 students. Some folks cannot find a class what they want to take, so they need to take them later. Sometime, they cannot graduate because they cannot take classes. You have to on the line to discuss with your professor. Sometimes, I saw that some folks seat on the floor instead of chair. I don't know why...

I think that sometimes UCO, or some other small universities are better than big public schools such as OU, and OSU in these points.

Lawyer. Well.....I

If somebody graduates public state university, you can be state lawyer but I don't think that there are many federal or government lawyer from state university. What about president? i think that most presidents and cabinets graduated from those kind of private schools.


Private schools are expensive.......

What about University of Tulsa? I think that it's a good school. Does anybody know about this school?

I wanted to revive this thread. My wife and I have been discussing whether to send our future kids to private school or public school someday. What are your thoughts?

[andy157]

Originally Posted by mranderson

I really do not know what business people you are in contact with, however, nearly every business person I have known (and I have known a lot of them, many world famous like Ross Perot, a friend of my dad's), have said they would trust an attroney from Harvard LONG before they would trust anyone else.

Other examples besides Ross Perot of the people we have known. (mostly my dad, however I have met many of these) Boone Pickens, The original Mathis Brothers, and many many more. The list is long and many names escape me at this point.

Wow!!! He really knew the original Mathis brothers? Thats really neat. Even though I grew up next door to Jude and Carol Northcutt, and I got to play Jody's guitar one time. Oh!!! Oh!!! And Red Zellner and Winky Ware played catch with me one time. I thought the Mathis Bros were the coolest. Your one LUCKY DUDE.

[andy157]

Originally Posted by mranderson

Funny you should use Casady vs. US Grant as an example, when it is common knowledge I went to Grant.

Grant was by choice. I could have chosen Heritage Hall or Casady.

Indeed you could have. But the question is. Would they have chosen you? U.S. Grant had no right of refusel.

[Easy180]

Originally Posted by Patrick

I wanted to revive this thread. My wife and I have been discussing whether to send our future kids to private school or public school someday. What are your thoughts?

Depends on what schools you are talking about...I would definitely save the dough if you are in any of the burbs...But then again with doc money coming in that may not come into play

[bandnerd]

Back to Patrick's question...

My husband and I have had the same conversation, though we are not sure if we will have any kids or not yet...

We figured we'd send our kids to Casady or one of the higher-performing charters. Hubby went to Bishop, and I've only ever gone to public schools. I know too much about Classen SAS to want to send my kids there. Casady has a great network of people who attended, and so does Harding CP. That would be our main focus--getting a good education and getting into a good network for the future.

[okiemom]

Our daughter attended public schools from K-12. She then attended OU. Our sons attended a private school as long as they could. We only have one here which runs K-3. After that, it was either public schools, drive to OKC or Norman every day or homeschool. We chose the homeschool option. If the opportunity to attend a private school had been here, we probably would have gone that route.
On the other hand, if they had gone to the private school, we would have never considered homeschooling,the option I'm glad we pursued.
While in high school, our oldest son picked up a few classes at OCCC.
He just completed his first year of college at John Brown University which is a private christian college in N.W. Ark.
I asked him what he thought of public school verses private. He said academically, the private school is better. But, the students at OCCC were more serious about their education. It's not playtime for them.
As far as our daughters education at OU, she's happy with it. But she has nothing to compare it to. If we could have sent her to a private school, we would have.

I looked at Heritage Hall's and Casady's website. Tuition is around 12-14K a year per kid at the two schools. That's pretty pricey for 12+ years of education.

[jbrown84]

You can almost go to OBU for that!

[mranderson]

Originally Posted by Patrick

I looked at Heritage Hall's and Casady's website. Tuition is around 12-14K a year per kid at the two schools. That's pretty pricey for 12+ years of education.

Actually, it is a very good value. They get a high quality education (for Oklahoma) and it keeps out the riff-raff.

[okiemom]

Define riff-raff.

[john60]

Before I begin, I should start by saying that I graduated from Bishop McGuinness, so I have a bit of a bias.

Bishop McGuinness is about half the cost of HH and Casady, and I think the academic rigor, environment, athletics, and social opportunities are not only half as good. McGuinness's teachers are for the most part excellent teachers. The administration is incredibly approachable: they were very in-tune to what was going on among the student body, and listened to us. Many of the administrators were more friends than administrators--most McGuinness grads are still very close to the administrators after graduation. I would be willing to bet it's AP English teachers are among the best in the state, and perhaps the region.

Also, comparatviely, McGuinness has a socioeconomic makeup that is much more realistic than at the other two private high schools. I went to school with people from lots of different backgrounds, and that diversity was very beneficial. Casady and Heritage Hall are a lot more wealthy and less diverse (much less "riff raff" if you must), which to me is a huge negative. Casady and HH want their schools to be elite, which is fine if that's your thing. McGuinness has a huge work study program so those who would not normally be able to afford the tuition can attend McGuinness.

I think different kids thrive in different environments; you just have to be sure that the opportunities are there. You have to hold your school to a certain standard, be it public or private. McGuinness, a private school, prepared me for the future, and I think it was worth every dollar. That being said, I would absolutely send my child to a public school in a heartbeat if I knew it could truly prepare them for the future in every aspect of life.

[PUGalicious]

Originally Posted by okiemom

Define riff-raff.

Self-righteous know-it-alls with deep-seeded, irrational prejudices toward people different from themselves — culturally, socioeconomicly or ideologically.

[okiemom]

PUGalicious, well said. An excellent definition. I believe we were thinking the same thing.

Well Mr. Anderson, let's hear your definition of riff-raff. Is it someone from a different economic background? If so, is it someone who make less than $50,000 per year? Less than $100,000 per year? Less than $200,00 per year?

Is it someone from a different religious background? Is it someone who go's to trade school instead of college? Is it someone who does drugs or is in a gang? Is in someone who gets divorced or has a child out of wedlock? Is it a racial thing with you? Is it a matter of someone having different morals than you? Is it someone with a dead end job and no ambition?

Is it someone who lives in certain area? Or perhaps someone who doesn't live in a certain area? There are people who ignorantly assume EVERYONE from the south side is riff-raff.


Perhaps it's someone who's a habitual liar? Is it someone who lives off someone else's good name and glory instead of accomplishing anything on their own? Is it a name dropper?

What exactly is the criteria you use to determine who's riff-raff and who isn't?

[Easy180]

Casady's tuition doesn't keep out the riff raff...Believe me my brother's son goes there

Knew several guys that went there and their parents were far from being wealthy...Worked two jobs to pay their tuition, which I think is unnecessary...Should spend more time at home raising them than working extra to get them to a nicer school system...The vast majority of kids do just enough to get by no matter what school system..(I know I know not my kid)

The real work doesn't start until college anyway

[Tim]

Originally Posted by mranderson

Actually, it is a very good value. They get a high quality education (for Oklahoma) and it keeps out the riff-raff.

I thought it was the creepy guy from Rocky Horror...

[Tim]

Originally Posted by okiemom

PUGalicious, well said. An excellent definition. I believe we were thinking the same thing.

Well Mr. Anderson, let's hear your definition of riff-raff. Is it someone from a different economic background? If so, is it someone who make less than $50,000 per year? Less than $100,000 per year? Less than $200,00 per year?

Is it someone from a different religious background? Is it someone who go's to trade school instead of college? Is it someone who does drugs or is in a gang? Is in someone who gets divorced or has a child out of wedlock? Is it a racial thing with you? Is it a matter of someone having different morals than you? Is it someone with a dead end job and no ambition?

Is it someone who lives in certain area? Or perhaps someone who doesn't live in a certain area? There are people who ignorantly assume EVERYONE from the south side is riff-raff.

Perhaps it's someone who's a habitual liar? Is it someone who lives off someone else's good name and glory instead of accomplishing anything on their own? Is it a name dropper?

What exactly is the criteria you use to determine who's riff-raff and who isn't?

Okiemom, great questions all. Too bad you won't get an answer!

[SoonerDave]

After a rather bitter personal experience at one local private elementary school, I found myself walking away with a much less naive notion about how some schools that identify themselves as "Christian" amazingly enough operate with the same political backbiting and agendas that most might think are unique to public schools. Not so. I'd like to go further, but I won't for personal reasons.

Actually, we loved the first private Christian school our kids attended. Heck, it reminded me more of my childhood grade school. However, a rather devious bit of politicking by a pastor of the church that ran the school - one that was apparently more of a CEO than a shepherd - forced the school to shut down, then left the church.

The second school has a great reputation, but after attending the school we realized it was built by only allowing in kids with stellar grades from other schools..makes it pretty easy to build a resume of achievement. If it didn't appear that a given child was going to succeed on their own, they were just summarily rejected. Duh. We were there a year, I was disillusioned for that and other reasons, and we left.

Now, our kids attend what is considered to be one of the better public elementary schools, and while I have certain very specific gripes about certain educational/curricular issues, in general I'm pleased with it. As the years progress, and the kids start hitting the mid-high and high-school years, we may still change to a private Christian school if we find one that fits the need, but that's still a few years down the road.

-soonerdave

[kmf563]

I attended a Christian private school for 2 years. While I liked the idea of going at my own pace, I definitely would say it taught nothing about how to handle the real world. Socially, all of the students attending that school were way behind.
As a parent now, my son attended a non religious private school for only 2 years. When I moved, I decided to give public school a chance. He has been granted the same opportunities in public school that he was given in private school. It all boils down to effort and how interactive you are with your children. The only thing he doesn't receive in public school that he did in private school is sign language and dance class. Both of these are offered in several afterschool programs as well as summer programs. Much cheaper to enroll them into these programs than to pay for private school. He will be entering junior high this coming year and he is taking highschool level courses. In highschool he will be taking college level credits. He also takes guitar lessons and is involved in sports....so it's not that he is incredibly smart, it's that as parents, we have made opportunities available for him and encouraged him to be involved and give his best. Also, he was just in the geography bowl last week.

So...to answer your question, I think you should look at which public schools you would be sending your children to and ask them what kind of programs they have available (during school, and after school) and then find out what you are missing and see if the programs you are wanting are available through community programs or through vo-techs and colleges.

[SoonerDave]

While I liked the idea of going at my own pace, I definitely would say it taught nothing about how to handle the real world

Could you expand a bit on what your experience was in terms of "going at my own pace?" The two Christian schools I dealt with were anything but "self-paced" - in fact, quite the opposite - keep up or die (almost Darwinian ethic).

Socially, all of the students attending that school were way behind.

Now, if I may ask, how do you quantify being "way behind" socially?

Despite my own sour experience with a particular Christian school, I've heard the "socialization" argument against homeschoolers and Christian schools, and think its a strawman argument. Knowing people and families who have made both choices, I can say their kids are polite, well-adjusted, and confident kids. Many times, "socialization" is code for "when do they start dating," and if kids start dating a bit later than broader society might allow, that's OK with me...

-soonerdave

[jbrown84]

I've known many homeschoolers who had problems with social interaction, but not so much with Christian schools kids. My sisters went to one of the big Christian schools and it's every bit as clicky as a public high school and there are just as many (or more) "bad kids"/partiers.