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mr. brewer obtained all his land by private means. He has never been given public land like mr. hogan thank you............get your facts right!!!!!!!!
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I have noticed in my brief time on this forum that when it comes to bricktown and lower bricktown facts tend to be ignored and manufactured facts to suit their purpose are presented by the detractors. I would really like to see a copy of Moshe Tal's plan and his financial information as they are continuously brought up in this forum. The last I heard he didn't have the money to pay the attorney fees granted to the city by the court over his frivolus lawsuit.
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My apologies.
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In Hogan's case, his investors weren't anonymous -- they were just nonexistent
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Nonexistent? Are you presenting that as a fact? I remember him naming them, but I can't remember the name, however I believe it was the company that owns Globe Life. I also remember Hogan's company paying over three million dollars for the land in lower bricktown, yet you claim it was given to him. Granted the city reinvested the money it received in the plaza and fountain area, but that was the city's choice.
I have no joy in what Hogan was able to do, but he was able to at least do something after having all of his orignal plans killed by Moshe's lawsuit. From what I remember about Tal all he did was talk. He could not show he had the resources or investors, or even any real renderings of the project he proposed. I heard heresay during that time that the only way he got Cordish interested was to claim that the City would provide millions of dollars to help build the project. Common sense also makes me ask why Cordish would even be interested in OKC unless there was a massive infusion of public funds. Personally, I am much more disappointed in how upper bricktown turned out than what I am in Lower Bricktown. I blame the city for what happened when they did not lock up the property owners into binding agreements as to the appearance of their properties, their useage and rent controls. Everyone of those buildings should have shops and other business on the canal or street levels and offices or condo's on the top floors were it not for the ridiculous rents that the carpetbaggers are asking. I have said enough, but I am still curious to know if you or Patrick have anything in the way of proof or real facts to back up your claims about Moshe Tal and the wonderful job he would have done in Lower Bricktown had he been given the chance by the 'good ole boys network'. |
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Allow me to respond later. That does deserve a response, but I want to do it right and provide a little research. Right now time constraints forbid that.
PM me if I don't respond soon. Don't let me forget. Thanks. As for upper bricktown, if it had been subsidized at near the same level as Hogan's boondoggle, it would have been amazing. Even so, it is an excellent development -- by far the best the state has to offer.
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As part of your research I hope that you can find copies of the "much more impressive commitments" that Tal provided to the city when he made his pitch or were they anonymous also? So far as your opinion goes that Upper Bricktown is the most impressive development in Oklahoma, I would agree that it is the most impressive deveopment in Oklahoma that has a canal associated with it.
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First of all no one would take that partnership....Karchmer tolbert and brewer have made upper bricktown by feeding it with property taxes...with no rent checks coming in.....hogan claimed his property for a dollar a foot(which i think is great now because it is another piece to the puzzle) that is what no one understands....lets all make this city successful...who cares if its western memorial bricktown southside it about time we have different districts
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if you look at the original map of the canal it would of went straight down the parking lot south of zios....however brewer proposed (i know his buildings were on this street) to make it on california...at the time know one would of believed that anyone like sonic would of built on that property (THAT IS WHY HE THOUGHT PEOPLE WOULD BE MORE APT TO DEVELOP WITH the BUILDINGs ALREADY THERE) this whole thing was a risk and it worked with the help of maps and norick....dont you all agree....and spurred other districts like western....and there will be more to come... i would say its not about money its a passion however look at youtube and myspace...it starts out as fun and ends up profitable......who cares its free enterprise (but youtube sold for way too much ha ha)
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Does anyone know what the status of this project is?
This project, along with the canal corner project would be a huge boon to Bricktown proper (Upper Bricktown?). Any news? |
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Hey Midtowner. Re your request on 10/29/06 that you be allowed to respond later when I asked you to bring some credibility to your statements about Moshe Tal. Perhaps you need another ten months to prepare your response. That's OK, as I will continue to wait.
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I've had a chance to go over a lot of Tal's lawsuits and how he sued basically anyone who came in contact with him including the law firm which represented him. Whether or not something happened here which was underhanded, I think the city is better off without a man like Moshe Tal having anything to do with Oklahoma City's renaissance. Sometimes, even when you're right, you just need to know when to pack up your toys and go home.
As much as Tal has paid in attorneys fees, I can't possibly imagine his suit was in complete bad faith. His lawyers (a very well-respected firm) took the case. If the case truly was a non-starter, I don't think they would have signed on. At any rate, I'm relatively happy with the way things turned out. Since there's nothing particularly special about any of the Hogan buildings, I have no doubt they'll be replaced with some more formidable structures within the next 20 years or so.
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Not yet. But the last I heard, this project involved tax credits, and that can cause some delays depending on the complexity of the renovation and financing.
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Ron Paul 2008. |
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Whoever keeps saying that parking in Bricktown needs to be free really needs to get outside of Mustang and observe what other cities are doing. I can't find free parking in Kansas City for crying out loud. Get wit it dogg. Brewer just makin some flow.
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It's pretty obvious the new owners, like the previous owner, doesn't care to maintain their investment nor care what their properties look like. And further, don't care how that apathetic attitude reduces the attraction and the image of the area.
It's a shame that we have a building looking this bad at the "headwaters" of the canal and neither the owners or the City can manage to make anything happen to at least make it look decent. |
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