Holiday Inn Express

Doug Loudenback · #1 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 04:47 AM

By Steve Lackmeyer at NewsOK: Dairy demolition<br/><span class='hl2'>Hotel hinges on removal of old ice cream building</span>

Quote:

Hotel hinges on removal of old ice cream building

The old Steffen's Ice Cream building at 101 E Main in Bricktown could soon be demolished to make way for a 95-room Holiday Inn Express.

The development is set to be reviewed Wednesday by the Bricktown Urban Design Committee, which is tasked with approving new construction and exterior renovations.

The developer, Alex Patel, has owned the Quality Inn Trade Winds, 1800 E Reno, since March 2007. The Quality Inn is just east of Bricktown and Patel said he often hears from guests who say they want to see more rooms available in the entertainment district.

"They want to be near the concerts, the events, the conventions,” Patel said. "There is in place now the new Hampton Inn (opening later this year), the Renaissance, the Colcord, the Skirvin ... but we're trying to appeal to the group that can't afford $200 a night. We're looking at $80 to $100.”

The proposed hotel will be four stories high with 54,796 square feet. The facade, designed by Quinn & Associates, includes brick and synthetic stucco. Patel said the hotel's guests would be provided parking space in the north Bricktown lot operated by Don Karchmer.

Patel estimated his project will cost up to $9 million and said he's eager to get the hotel built so that it might be open by the return of the Big 12 Basketball Tournament in March 2009. Patel said his Quality Inn sold out when the tournament was held at Ford Center last year.

"We've got the plans, and the franchise is gung-ho about it,” Patel said. "We could probably get the remaining plans out three months after getting the OK from the design committee.”

Patel said his purchase of the property is tied to getting approval from the committee to tear down the dairy, which was built in several phases starting in 1916. The building is not on the National Register of Historic Places, and is owned by veteran Bricktown developer Karchmer.

The Bricktown urban design ordinance gives the committee power to veto demolition, but it only discourages demolition if a building is on the historic register or is considered locally to be a historic structure.

Bob Blackburn, executive director of the Oklahoma Historical Society, said determination of whether a building is historical goes beyond whether it's placed on the historic register. More than a quarter century ago it was Blackburn who was hired by original Bricktown developer Neal Horton to place several other buildings in the district on the list.

Blackburn said considerations include whether a property was associated with a historic person, event or architectural style and whether it has any national, state or local significance.

He said historic significance can be diminished if the building's appearance has been altered. But he also cautioned against considering the building without looking at its place in the overall district. He compared tearing down an old building to chipping away pieces of a mosaic mural.

"This building may not be important individually,” Blackburn said. "But like the Walnut Street bridge, which may not have been significant individually, it is part of the urban landscape that gives all the properties scale, texture and variety. And every piece you lose of that context, you're losing that texture and variety and overall of the district.”

Bricktown, he said, is special because it is a collection of historic buildings.

"Take enough pieces out of that mosaic and you lose your focus,” Blackburn said. "I'm not saying this is going to diminish the context of Bricktown ... but each time you chip away a little bit more at the overall fabric, it affects everything else.”

Jim Cowan, director of the Bricktown Association, said the district is eager to see additional hotel rooms — but as with recent applications for a McDonald's and a Hampton Inn — ordinary franchise architecture might not be sufficient.

"It's a question of tearing down a building in order to make a better structure,” Cowan said. "We'll have to weigh all the merits ... Bricktown is at a point where we as a community can afford to be demanding. It has to be a question of what matches. We're not just desperate for any type of development.”

solitude · #2 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 05:35 AM

NO! The last thing we need is an opening for "Hogan-like creep" into Bricktown proper. There should absolutely be no "Lower Bricktown" designs on Main Street. If they want to build a Holiday Inn Express then let them make it the coolest one in the nation in a renovated warehouse that would fit with Bricktown - or find someplace else. I would be very much opposed to tearing down the old Steffen's Ice Cream Plant for a modern mini-hotel under any circumstances.

I think it's worth pasting Bob Blackburn's points here about building a new Holiday Inn Express and losing another piece of historic Bricktown:

Quote:

Bob Blackburn, executive director of the Oklahoma Historical Society, said determination of whether a building is historical goes beyond whether it's placed on the historic register. More than a quarter century ago it was Blackburn who was hired by original Bricktown developer Neal Horton to place several other buildings in the district on the list.

Blackburn said considerations include whether a property was associated with a historic person, event or architectural style and whether it has any national, state or local significance.

He said historic significance can be diminished if the building's appearance has been altered. But he also cautioned against considering the building without looking at its place in the overall district. He compared tearing down an old building to chipping away pieces of a mosaic mural.

"This building may not be important individually,” Blackburn said. "But like the Walnut Street bridge, which may not have been significant individually, it is part of the urban landscape that gives all the properties scale, texture and variety. And every piece you lose of that context, you're losing that texture and variety and overall of the district.”

Bricktown, he said, is special because it is a collection of historic buildings.

"Take enough pieces out of that mosaic and you lose your focus,” Blackburn said. "I'm not saying this is going to diminish the context of Bricktown ... but each time you chip away a little bit more at the overall fabric, it affects everything else."

Doug Loudenback · #3 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solitude

If they want to build a Holiday Inn Express then let them make it the coolest one in the nation in a renovated warehouse that would fit with Bricktown

Now, that would be a classy, for sure! I haven't finished "digesting" what I think about this except that 2 points are pretty clear in my mind: (1) The above ... that would be the best solution possible; (2) I'm wholly agreeing with the idea that a hotel offering $80-$100 rooms in the area would be a good thing. Figuring out how to blend (1) and (2) may be the solution, if that is possible. The blend may not be possible, though, I have no clue about the economics involved.

betts · #4 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 06:44 AM

Ack! This is a terrible idea. More fake stucco. I don't have any problem with offering less expensive lodging choices, but not directly in Bricktown unless the hotel is either an existing structure or built to perfectly blend with an existing structure. That means all brick to me. Fake stucco is lower Bricktown, er Stuccotown, so let him build it south of Reno. The Hampton Inn is about all I can take. I've just sent Jim Cowan an e-mail about this. I'm sure one of these days I'm going to send enough to gain the reputation of a cranky crackpot, but I'm not willing to quietly stand by and let them ruin Bricktown.

Doug Loudenback · #5 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 06:55 AM

Here are 2 scans I just made from this morning's Oklahoman ... quality is not so hot but better images may be available ...

Steffen's Ice Cream in 1946

The proposed Holiday Inn Express

mmm · #6 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 07:34 AM

...bacause okc has a great track record when it comes to tearing down buildings to make room for holiday inn's?

-M (with apologies to doug for hot-linking one of his images)

Karried · #7 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 08:25 AM

oh no.. they tore that beautiful building down for a Holiday Inn!! That is a travesty.

The Ice Cream building doesn't have anywhere near the character of the above building ( does it still look like this?) , yet to tear it down for a Holiday Inn is something I'm not sure about.

I know we need more hotel rooms to progress as a convention city and tourist spot, especially if we get the NBA.

The renderings of the hotel look okay - it's not terrible and is an improvement over the current look of the ice cream building... is that all red stucco with brick corners?

It needs to be all brick.

Doug Loudenback · #8 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmm

...bacause okc has a great track record when it comes to tearing down buildings to make room for holiday inn's?

-M (with apologies to doug for hot-linking one of his images)

No problem at all about linking, but the old courthouse was actually south of where the Holiday Inn came to be ... notice in this 1929 pic looking southwest showing Montgomery Wards construction that the courthouse was south of where the Holiday Inn came to be located. I don't recall the reason for the demise of the courthouse ... probably part of the Pei Plan demolition stuff, but I'm not sure.

Larger image at http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49...anders034a.jpg

mmm · #9 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 08:47 AM

gotcha... it's pretty hard to tell exactly where stuff was compared to where everything is now. that montgoery ward construction pic is awesome! great find.

while i wouldn't swear on a stack as per the accuracy, i had always heard that the old courthouse had fallen into severe disrepair in its last years. instead of repairing it (or keeping in a state of repair, for that matter), the powers that be opted to let it be torn down. sad, really. i would have loved to have seen that building in person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by karried

is that all red stucco with brick corners?

that's what i was thinking, too... no cutting corners. it's gotta be all brick or it shouldn't be there.

-M

Doug Loudenback · #10 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 09:36 AM

mmm, the Wards pic is contained in my blog post on Leo Sanders, Doug Dawgz Blog: The Leo Sanders Collection . The images in that post were all given to me by Norman Thompson, as he did with the Springlake pics. I'm very glad to have him as a benefactor, big time! There are other Wards pics in the post as well as several other buildings that Leo Sanders was involved with ... and they are all, indeed, very nice. Thanks again, Norman!

mmm · #11 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 09:58 AM

...so, am i understanding this right, doug? -M

Doug Loudenback · #12 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 10:05 AM

You got it! It looks as though the jail part of the campus extended further east, into part of the current parking garage area, but the courthouse was located where you placed it.

Patrick · #13 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 11:32 AM

This is ridiculous. I hope the urban design committee shoots this down. Avis Scaramucci, owner of Nonna's, expressed concern that the Hampton Inn would have stucco on the top 2 floors. At least that structure will be mostly brick.

It looks like a suburban Holiday Inn Express. Like one you'd find on Memorial Rd. I figured for Bricktown it would be mostly brick, but it doesn't appear that way from the picture. It looks all stucco except for the corners, which are brick.

I hate to say this, but it looks worse than most of Randy Hogan's buildings.

I'd rather they try to put the hotel inside the old Steffen's Building. Boy, that's a novel concept.
It's the same thing Avis did when she built her Bricktown restaurant.

I hope the Bricktown Urban Design Committe doesn't make a mistake here.

I'm not oppsed to cheaper hotel rooms in Bricktown, but not at the expense of losing the area's charm.

I hope everyone will email them and express their disapproval.

Patrick · #14 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 11:35 AM

You can email Jim Cowan at jcowan at bricktownokc.org

I'd also encourage you to also email Avis Scaramucci: avis at nonnas.com

Patrick · #15 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 12:15 PM

I think it's funny they say that the proposed developer owns the Quality Inn Trade Winds at 1800 E. Reno. We don't want anything associated with that to locate in Bricktown. I should say BRICKtown.

Patrick · #16 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 12:22 PM

Here's the email I sent to Avis:

Avis,

I saw the pictures of the proposed Holiday Inn Express in Bricktown.

I can't believe we'd even allow this structure to go up there. It's almost entirely stucco, with brick corners only. We need to stop what's going on in Lower Bricktown, aka Stuccotown....we need to demand that these buildings be mostly brick, just like we did with the Hampton Inn.

I think they need to go with either a mostly brick building. OR, here's a novel concept, why don't they locate the hotel within the old dairy building, like you located your restaurant in an old warehouse? I don't think we should demolish the old dairy building for this.

Patrick ****

Steve · #17 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 03:16 PM

For those of you who don't recall the application McDonald's submitted for a Bricktown restaurant last year (the last conflict at Bricktown Urban Design), I've posted the before and after sketches at OKC Central — Just another Blog.newsok.com weblog.
-Steve

BG918 · #18 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 04:02 PM

Why don't they develop one of the parking lots in Bricktown instead? And yes make it all BRICK. I'd like to see this further down Sheridan (the east end of Bricktown).

Pete Brzycki · #19 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 04:27 PM

Not coincidently, that rendering looks an awful like Hogan's Centennial project, which I think is terrible in terms of architecture and materials used.

Oh GAWD the Smell! · #20 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick

Here's the email I sent to Avis:

Avis,

I saw the pictures of the proposed Holiday Inn Express in Bricktown.

I can't believe we'd even allow this structure to go up there. It's almost entirely stucco, with brick corners only. We need to stop what's going on in Lower Bricktown, aka Stuccotown....we need to demand that these buildings be mostly brick, just like we did with the Hampton Inn.

I think they need to go with either a mostly brick building. OR, here's a novel concept, why don't they locate the hotel within the old dairy building, like you located your restaurant in an old warehouse? I don't think we should demolish the old dairy building for this.

Patrick ****

You could always narc them out to the folks building the Hampton Inn....They'd get ticked if somebody else didn't have to jump through the hoops they did...And they've probably got more horsepower than you.

brianinok · #21 (**permalink**) 02-09-2008, 07:25 PM

Steve makes a great point on his blog. Well, he poses it as a question, but I will answer it here. That rendering looks like a standard Holiday Inn Express. If McDonalds, Hampton Inn, etc. can all manage to build brick buildings in Bricktown, then these people should have to do the same. Even saying that, they shouldn't get to do this project. They should either have to use an existing building (there a few large empty buildings that could hold a hotel this size) or build on a parking lot. Haven't we torn down enough buildings??