Holiday Inn Express - Page 3

CuatrodeMayo · #51 (**permalink**) 02-12-2008, 11:10 AM

Yes. Tomorrow.

metro · #52 (**permalink**) 02-12-2008, 01:28 PM

What time and where would be helpful!

CuatrodeMayo · #53 (**permalink**) 02-12-2008, 01:52 PM

http://www.okc.gov/planning/brickurb...BTcalendar.pdf

116 E Sheridan Ave, 2nd Floor Conference Room, 9am

Somebody go, because I can't.

jsenter · #54 (**permalink**) 02-12-2008, 05:04 PM

I can't believe they'd even consider allowing this trash to be built in Bricktown.

metro · #55 (**permalink**) 02-12-2008, 08:10 PM

To no surprise, the public meeting is in the middle of the workday.

jbrown84 · #56 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 02:31 PM

Any word?

metro · #57 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 03:04 PM

Yeah, Steve I know you were probably there, anyone else? We need to start encouraging these groups to meet after 5:30pm so real people have time to go to them.

Steve · #58 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 03:54 PM

Story coming out shortly at NewsOK.

Steve · #59 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 05:49 PM

Story is now at NewsOK

Doug Loudenback · #60 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 07:05 PM

Here's the more direct link: NewsOK: Hotel design approval key to dairy demolition and here's the article:

Quote:

By Steve Lackmeyer
Business Writer

Developers of a proposed Bricktown Holiday Inn Express were given tentative approval Wednesday to demolish an old dairy — but only if they get approval for the hotel design.

The Bricktown Urban Design Committee criticized the designs submitted by Kusum Hospitality, which include 39 percent synthetic stucco in the exterior facade. The committee also criticized the shape of the building proposed for 101 E Main, which members called “busy” and not in step with the old warehouse district.

Committee members agreed the existing building on the site, formerly Steffen’s Ice Cream, was beyond salvaging.

John Sweeney, vice president of operations for Kusum, promised to return to the committee next month with revised drawings that will include more brick and will better conform with district standards.

CCOKC · #61 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 07:08 PM

Well, does that mean that the committee knows something we don't and the building is not salvagable? What exactly does that mean? I'm glad that they insisted on a new design but hate to see the demolision of a building if it is not necessary.

Doug Loudenback · #62 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCOKC

Well, does that mean that the committee knows something we don't and the building is not salvagable? What exactly does that mean? I'm glad that they insisted on a new design but hate to see the demolision of a building if it is not necessary.

I suppose that it's a given that committee members have been inside the building and have reports about salvagability. While I've seen the building from the outside, I have no clue about the inside, structural soundness, etc.

Pete Brzycki · #63 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 07:28 PM

If it's not salvageable, then the only course of action is to get a well-designed building in it's place and it sounds like that is what the committee is setting out to do.

On the positive side, hopefully we'll get a nice-looking and architecturally compatible structure and some more hotel rooms to boot.

CCOKC · #64 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 07:33 PM

I agree with you. I would definitely like to know more about the state of the old creamery but if it is in such bad repair then I guess I would be in favor of the space being used for for a better purpose instead of just sitting there and getting worse.

Steve · #65 (**permalink**) 02-13-2008, 08:15 PM

Longer, more in-depth story in the morning paper.

Doug Loudenback · #66 (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 01:47 AM

It's now morning! See NewsOK: Architect not hopeful for Steffen's

Quote:

Architect not hopeful for Steffen's
By Steve Lackmeyer
Business Writer

The outside of the old Steffen's Ice Cream building in Bricktown may appear intact, but architect Tom Wilson insists appearance, in this case, is indeed deceiving.

The roof is caved in. The floors, all poured-in-place concrete, go from one level to another and then another. Structurally, Wilson said, the building is on the verge of collapse. The brick facade itself was damaged when previous owners tried to sandblast white paint.

"It's prohibitive,” Wilson said. "It's a stretch to just keep it up.”

Such an argument was to be expected at Wednesday's meeting of the Bricktown Urban Design Committee, which heard an application from Kusum Hospitality to tear down the dairy and replace it with a four-story, 95-room Holiday Inn Express.

But Wilson isn't working for Kusum Hospitality — he's a veteran Bricktown architect and chairman of the urban design committee. And it was Wilson's account of his firm's attempt to buy the same building a couple years ago that convinced fellow committee members the old Steffen's Ice Cream building is beyond saving.

Architect Fred Quinn, working on behalf of Kusum Hospitality, said his firm made several efforts to see if the former dairy could be converted into a hotel.

"All in all, we tried hard,” Quinn said.

Demolition of the building is not a certainty. Committee members unanimously criticized the proposed design by Quinn & Associates, which included a facade of 61 percent brick and 49 percent synthetic stucco.

Kip Bettencourt, an architect with Quinn & Associates, defended the design and argued the use of synthetic stucco, commonly known as Exterior Insulation Finish Systems or EIFS, was not a matter of cost. Instead, he said, the material was included as a matter of good design.

"I selected the amount of brick myself with architectural license,” Bettencourt said. "I felt that just slapping brick on this building for the sake of putting brick on it was inappropriate. These buildings were built at different times ... and that's how these things evolved and that's what I was trying to be true to.”

Bettencourt also agreed with committee comments that the building was "a little bit busy.” But he said he was trying to provide something "attractive to address the corner of Oklahoma and Main Street.”

Committee members were unswayed by Bettencourt and ruled no demolition can take place before a new design is submitted that "flattens” the facade, includes more brick and eliminates much of the synthetic stucco.

Wilson also suggested the developers try to incorporate an antique boiler inside the building and the oldest part of the structure — the north facade facing the BPI parking lot.

John Sweeney, vice president of operations for Kusum Hospitality, said after the meeting his group is prepared to follow the committee's recommendations – including possible preservation of the dairy's north facade.

Sweeney said he also had read criticisms voiced on local online chat boards and forums.

"We're not going to build an eyesore,” Sweeney said. "We're relying on the local population, and we need the local population to like what we do. The Holiday Inn Express we're going to build will be built to last.”

Way to go, guys!

Here's the corresponding Journal Record article ... The Journal Record - Article

Quote:

Bricktown could get Holiday Inn Express
by Kelley Chambers
The Journal Record February 14, 2008

OKLAHOMA CITY – A hotel developer hopes to raze an unoccupied industrial building in Oklahoma City’s Bricktown district to make way for a 95-room Holiday Inn Express.

The building, at 101 E. Main St., is the former Steffen Ice Cream Co., which was built in 1917 and added to in phases over the years. The hotel would have four stories with about 55,000 square feet.

Alex Patel, the owner and developer, is proposing the project, which would cost between $8 million and $9 million to build.
But he may have a long road ahead in gaining approval to tear down the existing structure and build the hotel.

On Wednesday, Fred Quinn and Kip Bettencourt, of the architecture firm Quinn & Associates, presented initial plans and renderings for the hotel to the Bricktown Urban Design Committee.

The committee oversees all aspects of building and development in Bricktown.

Bettencourt said the project hinges on the demolition of the old Steffen’s building.

“We’re proposing that the demolition of the building be conditional upon the conceptual approval,” he said. “We obviously wouldn’t want to tear down a building without something to replace it with.”

Nevertheless, committee members voiced concern over tearing down the building and several aspects of the proposed hotel’s façade.
Bettencourt said plans now call for 61 percent brick on the exterior, which drew concern from committee members that it was not enough. There is no specific ordinance for how much brick a building in the district must contain.
“It concerns me that we would destroy this building that’s been there since 1917 and replace it with a busy footprint,” said Bob Bright, urban design committee member.

Patel, who also owns the Quality Inn Bricktown, at 1800 E. Reno Ave., east of Bricktown, said he has been looking at the district for a possible hotel for about four years.

After a conversation with Don Karchmer, owner of the Steffen’s building, Patel said he knew he had found the perfect site for a hotel.
“The site and the way it sits is one of the ideal locations for a hotel,” he said. “Most of the other buildings in Bricktown are close together and it’s hard to construct in such a small footprint.”

Patel added that every effort was made to keep and convert the existing building, but it was in too poor of shape to be worth saving.
“The inside of it is really in bad shape,” he said.
Tom Wilson, chairman of the committee, said he is quite familiar with the building, and that it is not structurally sound and most of the wooden roof is on the floor.

“I am in favor of keeping all the older buildings that we have in Bricktown and trying to re-use them,” Wilson said. “But it would seem this would really be a stretch.”

Patel said the hotel could also bring more moderately priced rooms to downtown and Bricktown, some of which can run upwards of $200 a night. The Holiday Inn would likely start at about $80 a night.

“We’re trying to appeal to a little lower price point than that,” Patel said. “We want Bricktown to be affordable for everyone.”
After the presentation by Quinn & Associates, the committee moved to grant a one-month continuance while the development team fine tunes the plans and adds more brick to the proposed façade.

Patel said his group will take the committee’s recommendations into consideration as they plan to move forward with the plan.
“We knew we were walking into a committee meeting and we’re not going to get a stamp of approval right away,” he said. “But the feedback they gave us was good to change our design concept to work for them and Bricktown as a whole.”

If the project receives final approval from Bricktown and the city, Patel said it could take between nine and 14 months to build.
“Our group is eager to get started,” he said. “The sooner the better, but we understand that it has to be done right.”

Doug Loudenback · #67 (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 02:24 AM

Here's a better image than the scan I made from the newspaper article ... newsprint doesn't scan well ... this is from the Oklahoman on-line archives, same picture ...

mmm · #68 (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 07:31 AM

that's good news... hopefully the next design will be better suited to the area. one thing that i didn't understand, though, was suggesting that the new design include an 'antique boiler' from the original structure. i mean why bother? who is going to see that?

Quote:

demolition of the building is not a certainty. committee members unanimously criticized the proposed design by quinn & associates, which included a facade of 61 percent brick and 49 percent synthetic stucco.

well... after reading this, i've got to hand it to those architects. they gave it 110%! : )

kevinpate · #69 (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 08:19 AM

I don't think the design looks all that 'busy'.

mmm · #70 (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 08:24 AM

^^
i can agree with that. the design would work for me if it included much less stucco and maybe a wash on the bricks to age them in appearance.

-M

Luke · #71 (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 08:33 AM

Ugh, stucco...

Maybe if we renamed it StuccoTown people would use more brick?

betts · #72 (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 10:03 AM

"Kip Bettencourt, an architect with Quinn & Associates, defended the design and argued the use of synthetic stucco, commonly known as Exterior Insulation Finish Systems or EIFS, was not a matter of cost. Instead, he said, the material was included as a matter of good design.'I selected the amount of brick myself with architectural license,” Bettencourt said. "I felt that just slapping brick on this building for the sake of putting brick on it was inappropriate. These buildings were built at different times ... and that's how these things evolved and that's what I was trying to be true to.'”

OK, this guy had better go back to architecture school. What school considers EIFS as an improvement over brick? Bricktown may have evolved over time, but if he considers lower Bricktown the natural evolution of Bricktown, I'm concerned about his sense of aesthetics. Tudor houses have stucco between the half timbering sometimes, and Mediterranean houses are frequently stucco. Where else? And those houses have real stucco that ages and has a unique look. This sounds like spin on why he used cheaper materials, and I suspect the real reason is that they're cheap. Does anyone know if EIFS is really as expensive as brick? It's hard to believe that, especially if one takes labor costs into consideration.

flintysooner · #73 (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 10:09 AM

EIFS can be more expensive than brick for the finish material. Usually you can save structural costs by using EIFS though but not always.

I understand his argument. I don't appreciate people trying to copy the past into the present in architecture. I prefer genuineness and creativity and trying to build something for the time.

I'm not at all certain a Holiday Inn Express belongs there though.

dalelakin · #74 (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 10:28 AM

What is the average price of a hotel room in downtown? Couldn't this help lower our average and make us a more appealing convention city? Just a thought.

Doug Loudenback · #75 (**permalink**) 02-14-2008, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalelakin

What is the average price of a hotel room in downtown? Couldn't this help lower our average and make us a more appealing convention city? Just a thought.

My experiences with Holiday Inn Express, though limited, has been good. I don't know downtown averages, but they are surely more than the range stated by the proponents of this plan. Hopefully, they'll come back with design changes that will be good and the project will proceed.

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