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Thread: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

  1. #251
    Chadanth is online now Gold Member
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    Chadanth / onthestrip , does the example of Garin in Seattle, help your understanding of the First Amendment in Federal Courts? ...and their position w/ corporations? ...re: Religous Practices.
    Maybe. I'd still be curious about provisions in their contract regarding media appearances. We'll see how it shakes out.

  2. #252
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    I don't understand how so many people can think this is a free speech issue. It's not. The Constitution doesn't guarantee the man's right to be employed by A&E. Remember this next time there is a high profile case where somebody is fired for being gay and you are standing up for that employer's right to at-will employment.
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  3. #253
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Quote Originally Posted by Chadanth View Post
    Maybe. I'd still be curious about provisions in their contract regarding media appearances. We'll see how it shakes out.
    Also, when Phil said "this is what the Bible says", is different than ( This is how Phil would do it ). The first is a "witness for Christians" and the other is an opinion. That falls into the category of common religous practices for Christians.

  4. #254
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Quote Originally Posted by Garin View Post
    SEATTLE (AP) A Seattle-area Muslim man who said his former employer fired him because of the beard he wears for religious reason has been awarded more than $66,000, although most of that will go to attorney fees.

    Abdulkadir Omar said he doesn't care about the money.

    "It's not even about the money," he said. "It's about standing up for something you believe in."

    In 2011, Omar filed his federal lawsuit in Seattle against Sacramento, Calif.-based American Patriot Security, seeking back pay and unspecified damages for emotional pain and loss of enjoyment of life, among other reasons.

    According to the lawsuit, Omar was hired by a local manager of the security company in May 2009 and earned $9 an hour guarding a FedEx warehouse in Kent, Wash. He said he started the same day he was hired, and was not told about the clean-shaven policy.

    In November 2009, a supervisor from headquarters told him he had to shave his beard because of the policy. Omar refused, saying his beard is part of his religious beliefs. He was suspended, and fired the following spring, the lawsuit said.

    An email inquiry to the security company on Wednesday was not immediately returned.

    "I truly hope that my case shows millions of American Muslims when they stand up whether it's at work or school, that they will win," Omar said. "I stood up and I won. I want my case to serve as an example."

    Born in Yemen, Omar said he immigrated to the United States when he was 10.

    "I grew up in this country, I've been living here all of my life. Just like everybody else, I'm an American," he said.

    The default judgment says that more than $50,000 of the $66,000 award is for attorney fees, while most of the rest goes to Omar, who said he was unemployed for nine months after being dismissed by American Patriot.

    Omar sued the security firm with the help of the Washington chapter of the Council for American-Islamic Relations.

    "Religious freedom is the law of the land," said Arsalan Bukhari, executive director of the Washington state CAIR office. "I think religious freedom is what makes American unique and we have very clear laws that states employers, schools must accommodate religious observances."
    bchris, this is exactly where this issue is. A Freedom of Religion, Constitution issue w/ "religous practices" in the Christian Belief.

  5. #255
    OKVision4U is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    I don't understand how so many people can think this is a free speech issue. It's not. The Constitution doesn't guarantee the man's right to be employed by A&E. Remember this next time there is a high profile case where somebody is fired for being gay and you are standing up for that employer's right to at-will employment.
    No it does not, the Constitution is bigger than employment w/ companies. The Federal Courts will be happy to help A&E gain a "clearer" understanding of their role as employers re: Religous practices.

  6. #256
    Dubya61 is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Quote Originally Posted by kelroy55 View Post
    Seems he was also being selective on what sins he doesn't like.
    No. You quit reading too early.
    “Start with homosexual behavior and just morph out from there. Bestiality, sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman and those men,” he says. Then he paraphrases Corinthians: “Don’t be deceived. Neither the adulterers, the idolaters, the male prostitutes, the homosexual offenders, the greedy, the drunkards, the slanderers, the swindlers—they won’t inherit the kingdom of God. Don’t deceive yourself. It’s not right.”
    Duck Dynasty's Phil Robertson Gives Drew Magary a Tour

  7. #257
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    bchris, this is exactly where this issue is. A Freedom of Religion, Constitution issue w/ "religous practices" in the Christian Belief.
    He has the right to believe that all he wants, but to be outspoken about that belief is another issue depending on A&E's terms of employment, especially if A&E has a specific set of values they are trying project and Mr. Robinson's personal beliefs oppose those values. People have every right to be racist, but racism in the workplace isn't tolerated and in most workplaces you can be shown the door if you are outspoken about it. Let's reverse the situation. Would you want the Federal government forcing a Christian film company to cast an openly gay actor as the lead star of a Christian movie?
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  8. #258
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    Chadanth / onthestrip , does the example of Garin in Seattle, help your understanding of the First Amendment in Federal Courts? ...and their position w/ corporations? ...re: Religous Practices.
    It tells me nothing. There are no relevant details provided in the article and I dont have a copy of Phil's contract with A&E or what state A&E is based. These details probably matter. For all I know this is an apple oranges comparison.
    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    No it does not, the Constitution is bigger than employment w/ companies. The Federal Courts will be happy to help A&E gain a "clearer" understanding of their role as employers re: Religous practices.
    Well I guess we should see this in court soon huh? Once again, you have no idea what you are talking about.

  9. #259
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubya61 View Post

    I still think he's being selective in what sins he doesn't like. The Bible is probably full of sins he does but chooses not to acknowledge them.

  10. #260
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    Let's see, Phil was Not at the "workplace" & "off hours", so all the corporate law does not apply. Phil was speaking about "his faith", not your faith / belief, but HIS personal faith / belief. That (seperates) this cconversation between Civil rights (as an individual) & Corporate Law.
    Perhaps you need to pull out your pocket Constitution and reread your First Amendment. Pay particular attention to the first four words.

  11. #261
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    No it does not, the Constitution is bigger than employment w/ companies. The Federal Courts will be happy to help A&E gain a "clearer" understanding of their role as employers re: Religous practices.

    What part of the Constitution has been violated here by either side?

  12. #262
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Quote Originally Posted by Garin View Post
    SEATTLE (AP) A Seattle-area Muslim man who said his former employer fired him because of the beard he wears for religious reason has been awarded more than $66,000, although most of that will go to attorney fees.

    Abdulkadir Omar said he doesn't care about the money.

    "It's not even about the money," he said. "It's about standing up for something you believe in."

    In 2011, Omar filed his federal lawsuit in Seattle against Sacramento, Calif.-based American Patriot Security, seeking back pay and unspecified damages for emotional pain and loss of enjoyment of life, among other reasons.

    According to the lawsuit, Omar was hired by a local manager of the security company in May 2009 and earned $9 an hour guarding a FedEx warehouse in Kent, Wash. He said he started the same day he was hired, and was not told about the clean-shaven policy.

    In November 2009, a supervisor from headquarters told him he had to shave his beard because of the policy. Omar refused, saying his beard is part of his religious beliefs. He was suspended, and fired the following spring, the lawsuit said.

    An email inquiry to the security company on Wednesday was not immediately returned.

    "I truly hope that my case shows millions of American Muslims when they stand up whether it's at work or school, that they will win," Omar said. "I stood up and I won. I want my case to serve as an example."

    Born in Yemen, Omar said he immigrated to the United States when he was 10.

    "I grew up in this country, I've been living here all of my life. Just like everybody else, I'm an American," he said.

    The default judgment says that more than $50,000 of the $66,000 award is for attorney fees, while most of the rest goes to Omar, who said he was unemployed for nine months after being dismissed by American Patriot.

    Omar sued the security firm with the help of the Washington chapter of the Council for American-Islamic Relations.

    "Religious freedom is the law of the land," said Arsalan Bukhari, executive director of the Washington state CAIR office. "I think religious freedom is what makes American unique and we have very clear laws that states employers, schools must accommodate religious observances."
    bchris, ....read this again, you may have missed this. The Federal Courts have already spoken on this issue. A&E or any employer must follow the Rules of the Road.

  13. #263
    Midtowner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    . . . is totally out of touch with reality?
    (objection, yer honor . . . Counsel is leading the Witless . . . )
    I haven't taken inventory of the whole thread, but that it is 10+ pages and some still clearly think that Robertson has any kind of case against A&E for the violation of his civil rights is just...well...wrong. That doesn't mean that maybe Robertson can find a lawyer to take the case, he's just not going to win it. A&E or any company can terminate employees who bring their employers under harsh public scrutiny.

  14. #264
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Quote Originally Posted by kelroy55 View Post
    What part of the Constitution has been violated here by either side?
    None.

  15. #265
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Quote Originally Posted by Midtowner View Post
    None.
    There are some who think otherwise and I was curious how they reached that conclusion.

  16. #266
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Didja ever notice that the only time reactionary right wingers throw around "freedom of speech" rights is when someone is called out for anti gay or anti racial minority comments? No protests when Charlie Sheen called out his producer or Gilbert Gottifried fired from AFLAC.

  17. #267
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Using Muslims as a source of how the government separates church and state is a non-starter. Muslims have special considerations that aren't afforded any other religion.

    On taxpayers' tab: Muslim prayer room, foot baths at San Francisco International Airport - Washington Times

    California taxpayers have footed the bill for Muslim airport cabbies to have their very own prayer room and foot baths at the San Francisco International Airport.

    Muslims are required to pray five times a day — a ritual that also calls for a ceremonial cleansing, the San Francisco Gate reported.

    Royal Cab driver Hasan Khan, a Pakistani immigrant, petitioned the airport for a proper place of prayer, to which it easily obliged, the San Francisco Gate said.

    The way we look at it … this was in the interest of maintaining a good relationship with ground transportation providers,” airport spokesman Doug Yakel told the San Francisco Gate.
    Third Place

  18. #268
    OKVision4U is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Quote Originally Posted by Midtowner View Post
    I haven't taken inventory of the whole thread, but that it is 10+ pages and some still clearly think that Robertson has any kind of case against A&E for the violation of his civil rights is just...well...wrong. That doesn't mean that maybe Robertson can find a lawyer to take the case, he's just not going to win it. A&E or any company can terminate employees who bring their employers under harsh public scrutiny.
    No, you are wrong. In Federal Court, this is a Freedom of Religion re: Commom Religous Practices like ( Witnessing in the Christian Faith ). When Phil said "The Bible says"...then that put this entire conversation under Federal Jurisdictionas a Religous Freedom (ie quoting the Bible). NO corporation can hide from it. Look at the example Garin provided in Seattle, this is the same thing. The court ruled in favor of the plantiff.

  19. #269
    Jersey Boss's Avatar
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    And you still haven't answered as to whether a Rastafarian can be exempt from a dirty pee test under your freedom of religion trumps employer rights.
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  20. #270
    kelroy55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    No, you are wrong. In Federal Court, this is a Freedom of Religion re: Commom Religous Practices like ( Witnessing in the Christian Faith ). When Phil said "The Bible says"...then that put this entire conversation under Federal Jurisdictionas a Religous Freedom (ie quoting the Bible). NO corporation can hide from it. Look at the example Garin provided in Seattle, this is the same thing. The court ruled in favor of the plantiff.
    Did A&E prevent him from saying any of those things? How was his freedom of religion violated?

  21. #271
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    No, you are wrong. In Federal Court, this is a Freedom of Religion re: Commom Religous Practices like ( Witnessing in the Christian Faith ). When Phil said "The Bible says"...then that put this entire conversation under Federal Jurisdictionas a Religous Freedom (ie quoting the Bible). NO corporation can hide from it. Look at the example Garin provided in Seattle, this is the same thing. The court ruled in favor of the plantiff.
    Ha! Is this like when Ricky Bobby says that if you say "with all due respect" before you say something it allows you to say anything you want? Its in the Geneva Convention!

    Once again, always funny to see non-lawyers argue with actual lawyers.

  22. #272
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    ...the Constitution OVER-RIDES any contract or law.
    I don't think there is a lick of actual knowledge of constitutional law in this statement or any of those made previously.

    Here a good summary of how employement law really works:

    Where Free Speech Goes to Die: The Workplace - Businessweek

  23. #273
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    Ha! Is this like when Ricky Bobby says that if you say "with all due respect" before you say something it allows you to say anything you want? Its in the Geneva Convention!

    Once again, always funny to see non-lawyers argue with actual lawyers.
    Even funnier when the non-lawyer cites "Garin" as the controlling case.

  24. #274
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    Even funnier when the non-lawyer cites "Garin" as the controlling case.
    Pretty much the kiss of death of any credibility.

  25. #275
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    Default Re: Phil Robertson FIRED from A & E

    Quote Originally Posted by OKVision4U View Post
    In Federal Court, you would find that "legal contract" would be thrown-out and Non-binding in Phil's case. He is "practicing" his belief in a NON work related location or event. Witnessing as a Christian is a common practice. The Constitution / First Amendment buries ANY contract (or law) that prevents a person's access to that right.
    Have you tried yelling "FIRE!!!" in a public place recently.... Go out and give it a try and see how far the 1st Amendment buries any law.

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