Why, what specifically do you not like? I'm listening... Explain to me why I should like this neighborhood?

You seem to have made it clear that this area does not appeal to you and that is okay. There is a reason that there are a variety of places to live. Edmond appeals to a lot of people for a variety of reasons. Downtown appeals to some people for different reasons. It is okay to like one place and not another. That does not mean that the places that do not have value to you do not have value. It is also true that the things you value may not have the same value to everyone. The character of SoSA appeals to some people and they are happy with what it offers. If you cannot discern that appeal you probably would do well to avoid the area because you are more likely to be unhappy there. That does make the area any less appealing to those that value what is there. You just have different likes and that is wonderfully okay. Hopefully, we all find something we like that we can be happy with.

I honestly believe that SoSA is a far better investment for the reasons you named. This area will improve greatly and that will greatly increase the value of the houses and properties in that area. If you're paying attention to trends in this, and surrounding areas, then you see an obvious trend.

You also seem to be really scared of these areas, but I've been in both areas and they're not nearly as bad as you describe, especially the Plaza Diatrict. Have you lived in urban areas much?

...Maybe I just don't get it.

Bingo! (It's called paradigm lock, and irrational fear.)

(Before building in SoSA, we lived in Yukon... cover page of Suburbia Magazine. We were broken into, and vandalized on several occasions. Going on five years in SoSA, and not a single incident of crime. I was surprised at how the authenticity of this area outshines the plasticity of suburbia (and how my gasoline bill was divided by 4!).) KT is right... everyplace isn't for everyone.

SOSA has a great downtown view, but that's about it for me. To each his own.

Everyplace isn't for everyone.

This is correct.

Questor, I don't think you understand SoSA, especially if you call it dilapidated and crime-ridden. Would I walk around there at night right now? Probably not.. but since building modern homes has caught fire in the neighborhood, it's become evident that this is not "the Cottage District" but rather SoSA and nothing else. The historic housing stock in there is mostly worthless old shacks. And comparing it to Edmond is laughable.. anyone who wants Edmond should just chose Edmond. Many prominent OKC people, including successful architects, Gazette publisher Bill Bleakley, meteorologist Mike Morgan, and many more are building homes in SoSA.

Good grief guys I did not compare the place to Edmond in the sense you are making it out to be. I grew up in an urban neighborhood. Sosa, today at least, feels like anything but. Compared to virtually any other area in downtown undergoing redevelopment this area doesn't match up in the categories of available infrastructure, businesses, community, safety, or readily available housing. Not today.

I can understand the folks who have basically said they see this neighborhood headed to something greater than it currently is and are banking on that. Or someone who just likes the views and doesn't care. A lot of the rest of the stuff I've heard I think is just unrealistic. But that's a general problem I have with most of the discussions on this message board. Such as not agreeing that the area is dilapidated when, in fact, most of what is going on down there involves either the condemnation or private destruction of existing structures which are in disrepair. Literally the textbook definition of.

Honestly I regret I even bothered to ask what the draw to this place is. I haven't really heard anything I didn't already suspect and its just put you all in attack mode. Sorry if you thought I called your baby ugly.

I thought about buying a lot or some property there. What appealed to me was the view, proximity to downtown, SOME of the new housing going in, a few of the old houses, proximity to Midtown, prospect of being close to the new school, the ability to have a tiny patch of grass without having to care for a huge yard, the possibility of a pool, which I don't have now. I think it's an up and coming area and if I had small children, I'd be looking hard there.

Good grief guys I did not compare the place to Edmond in the sense you are making it out to be. I grew up in an urban neighborhood. Sosa, today at least, feels like anything but. Compared to virtually any other area in downtown undergoing redevelopment this area doesn't match up in the categories of available infrastructure, businesses, community, safety, or readily available housing. Not today.

I can understand the folks who have basically said they see this neighborhood headed to something greater than it currently is and are banking on that. Or someone who just likes the views and doesn't care. A lot of the rest of the stuff I've heard I think is just unrealistic. But that's a general problem I have with most of the discussions on this message board. Such as not agreeing that the area is dilapidated when, in fact, most of what is going on down there involves either the condemnation or private destruction of existing structures which are in disrepair. Literally the textbook definition of.

Honestly I regret I even bothered to ask what the draw to this place is. I haven't really heard anything I didn't already suspect and its just put you all in attack mode. Sorry if you thought I called your baby ugly.

Other than the views of downtown, I don't really understand the draw of this area either.

I defintely need to look harder at this area. I have focused on Deep Deuce, Midtown, and a hopeful vision of C2S thus far. Anyone know what an average lot goes for presently?

...Anyone know what an average lot goes for presently?

$20-80k

Good grief guys I did not compare the place to Edmond in the sense you are making it out to be. I grew up in an urban neighborhood. Sosa, today at least, feels like anything but. Compared to virtually any other area in downtown undergoing redevelopment this area doesn't match up in the categories of available infrastructure, businesses, community, safety, or readily available housing. Not today.

I can understand the folks who have basically said they see this neighborhood headed to something greater than it currently is and are banking on that. Or someone who just likes the views and doesn't care. A lot of the rest of the stuff I've heard I think is just unrealistic. But that's a general problem I have with most of the discussions on this message board. Such as not agreeing that the area is dilapidated when, in fact, most of what is going on down there involves either the condemnation or private destruction of existing structures which are in disrepair. Literally the textbook definition of.

Honestly I regret I even bothered to ask what the draw to this place is. I haven't really heard anything I didn't already suspect and its just put you all in attack mode. Sorry if you thought I called your baby ugly.

I think there's a lot more in SoSA than one might realize though. The Classen Glenn condos were the earlier pioneers. Then Randy Floyd did a great renovation on 7th Street I believe. The intersection of 7th/Francis was completely gentrified a few years ago, now the rough areas around it are all tear-downs for new housing.

I think there's a lot more in SoSA than one might realize though. The Classen Glenn condos were the earlier pioneers. Then Randy Floyd did a great renovation on 7th Street I believe. The intersection of 7th/Francis was completely gentrified a few years ago, now the rough areas around it are all tear-downs for new housing.

Just want to chime in with my thoughts on the SoSA area
I bought a lot on 7th St that had a blighted duplex that was torn down by the city before I purchased. I had a house built in late 2004 and lived there and worked downtown until I had to move to MO in 2009. I plan on using the house for my retirement in the future and have had no problems keeping it leased since 2009. I have owned homes on 40th St(Helm Farm), still own a home in Mesta Park and the SoSA house. The SoSA area has gotten better year by year and I find it to have the best of all things from Downtown/Dining/Entertainment within easy access. The SoSa neighborhood is the quietest and tranquil of the previous places I owned and occupied. I never had any problem walking the S0SA neighborhood at night but I can understand that some might have apprehension. I visit frequently and try to keep up on the goings on in the neighborhood with this blog and other sources. I think most in the area would agree that it is a great place to live and those that try to evaluate it without living there cant really understand. I would however like to see a grocery store in the area (The Browns Bakery looks alot like the Safeway Markets did when i was growing up in California).

Ken

I believe the Brown's Bakery location was a former Safeway that Brown's moved into when Safeway moved from that location to their new 18th & Classen location many, many years ago. I seem to recall Brown's being located elsewhere before the move to the current location, I just can't remember where.

I believe the Brown's Bakery location was a former Safeway that Brown's moved into when Safeway moved from that location to their new 18th & Classen location many, many years ago. I seem to recall Brown's being located elsewhere before the move to the current location, I just can't remember where.

Those market buildings were probably very futuristic in the late 50's early 60's. They have a look that says Market.

thanks for the post

Ken

Good grief guys I did not compare the place to Edmond in the sense you are making it out to be. I grew up in an urban neighborhood. Sosa, today at least, feels like anything but. Compared to virtually any other area in downtown undergoing redevelopment this area doesn't match up in the categories of available infrastructure, businesses, community, safety, or readily available housing. Not today.

I can understand the folks who have basically said they see this neighborhood headed to something greater than it currently is and are banking on that. Or someone who just likes the views and doesn't care. A lot of the rest of the stuff I've heard I think is just unrealistic. But that's a general problem I have with most of the discussions on this message board. Such as not agreeing that the area is dilapidated when, in fact, most of what is going on down there involves either the condemnation or private destruction of existing structures which are in disrepair. Literally the textbook definition of.

Honestly I regret I even bothered to ask what the draw to this place is. I haven't really heard anything I didn't already suspect and its just put you all in attack mode. Sorry if you thought I called your baby ugly.

Questor

I do thank you for bringing this blog back to life

Ken

There used to be several in the OKC area, where Sprouts (formerly Sunflower) is located at NW 63rd & May was one of those before CompUSA moved in there. In fact Homeland had a store in there until the early 90's (I think) after they took over the former Safeway stores and facilities in Oklahoma. I see a few of that style building here in Denver and figure they were old Safeway stores, we also had one somewhat close to us in Austin that was a former Safeway store.

I believe the Brown's Bakery location was a former Safeway that Brown's moved into when Safeway moved from that location to their new 18th & Classen location many, many years ago. I seem to recall Brown's being located elsewhere before the move to the current location, I just can't remember where.

Closer toward Robinson I believe

Wasn't it at the Floral and Hardy location on Robinson? I remember going there years ago before I really had a geographical understanding of downtown so I'm not completely sure.

Brown's Bakery was across the street north from Floral and Hardy. The building was demolished and is now a surface parking lot adjacent to and immediately west of the Garage Lofts.

I just came across these plans for 819 and 829 NW 7, and don't remember seeing them yet, but I might just be out of the loop. Pretty incredible.

http://www.okc.gov/planning/planning_library/urban_design/UDCA-13-00011.pdf

http://www.okc.gov/planning/planning_library/urban_design/UDCA-13-00010.pdf

...I might just be out of the loop. Pretty incredible.

You're not out of the loop. These two projects are hot off the press. Two more on the same side of the street will be happening soon...

These are incredibly cool. I can't wait to see them finished.

I love these houses. I kind of wish we could get more of them here on the east side. I love walking in neighborhoods with these houses peppered in. Keep up the great work!

This. So much this.

These concepts are cool and I really like the modern ness of the builds. But the location is weak.

Here's some renderings and info from the first pdf:

Cobb Residence
819 NW 7th Street


http://dl.dropbox.com/s/fi3cfb7clf6b0x4/cobb_front.jpg



http://dl.dropbox.com/s/en20e8uk1h1yykq/cobb_se.jpg



http://dl.dropbox.com/s/l5lh2ttvnris8x4/cobb_east.jpg



http://dl.dropbox.com/s/c4qx0e2brbddq3t/cobb_ne.jpg



http://dl.dropbox.com/s/0ab5j85174teb78/cobb_west.jpg



http://dl.dropbox.com/s/bxx8gc7cgymridt/cobb_nw.jpg


A. ITEMS FOR CONSIDERATION
1. Main Building
a) Construct a new two-story, 2,545 square foot single-family
residence using cast-in-place concrete walls with smooth HDO
finish with rustication joints (at the first floor); eter-color (grey)
cement board siding (second floor); clear, commercial-style, Low-E,
insulated pane, storefront glass and sliding doors in aluminum
frames; composite wood decking (at the second floor deck); and
vertical and horizontal sunscreens made of galvanized steel bar
grate.

2. Screening
a) Install fences and gates using galvanized steel bar grate.

3. Miscellaneous Site improvements
a) Construct a new concrete stairway with composite wood treads and
a steel tube grab bar.

B. BACKGROUND
1. Location
The project site is located on the north side of NW 7th St between N
Francis and N Shartel.
The site is located in the DTD-1 zoning district and is subject to the
applicable provisions of the Downtown Design District zoning ordinance
rather than the Urban Design Overlay District.

2. Site History
The existing house was originally constructed in 1905 and remodeled in
1965.

3. Existing Conditions
The existing house is currently vacant.

4. Surrounding Environment
The house is primarily surrounded by a mix of contemporary and older
single-family residences.


http://dl.dropbox.com/s/6sayutekvulimyl/cobb_site.jpg

By all means, Im a fan of these homes, especially the one in the first link of wsucougz post, the one with the pool that will have awesome views of downtown.

However, the moderness of these homes is beginnnig to look a little homogeneous. The same concrete and steel plated squared designs is getting a little played out. I guess thats what happens when the same architect designs them. Maybe some different materials would be nice.

These homes are amazing. I can't wait to see SoSa/Cottage District continue to develop this way.

Also - they've secured $500,000 for alleyway improvements in the area from City Council. This should boost the property values beyond their already staggering increases from the residential developments alone.

http://www.okc.gov/agendapub/cache/2/p1mts5udwvgtdd55k3hh1sr2/183716205012013121917954.PDF

This. So much this.

These concepts are cool and I really like the modern ness of the builds. But the location is weak.

Yeah, I love these projects and would love to buy in, but every time I actually go there, my interest wanes. It feels less connected to MT and DT than it should and needs several more of these projects to be completed before it doesn't feel spotty anymore. Drop these things on Oklahoma between 6th and 10th and I'd be in.

Here's another new one:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/SoSA/173960237930 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/SoSA/173960237930)

By all means, Im a fan of these homes, especially the one in the first link of wsucougz post, the one with the pool that will have awesome views of downtown.

However, the moderness of these homes is beginnnig to look a little homogeneous. The same concrete and steel plated squared designs is getting a little played out. I guess thats what happens when the same architect designs them. Maybe some different materials would be nice.

I agree on the homogeneous part. I really like the intermingling of the modern and the historical. However, when I suggested as much when I was City staff, the architects in the area roundly shot me down.

Yeah I can certainly see the redundancy in the designs. At the same time, SoSA is pretty much the only platted area in OKC where you can build a modern style home. Your typical suburban HOA would flip as it deviates from the sort of French Country cookie cutter look that has dominated new neighborhoods in this area, and any historical intown neighborhood would balk and such a contrasting style (not to mention it would probably not pass any sort of HP committee that are over these areas).

Yeah I can certainly see the redundancy in the designs. At the same time, SoSA is pretty much the only platted area in OKC where you can build a modern style home. Your typical suburban HOA would flip as it deviates from the sort of French Country cookie cutter look that has dominated new neighborhoods in this area, and any historical intown neighborhood would balk and such a contrasting style (not to mention it would probably not pass any sort of HP committee that are over these areas).

That is true. Mesta Park has one cool house at 21st and Olie, I believe, that got in somehow. Also, there's a modern house at 30th & Harvey in the Edgemere HP. It was contested, but ended up being built. Personally, I don't like it all.

The beauty of the Cottage District is that it's a mixture and allows for creative work. Unfortunately, most people think you have to tear down and build new to create something good. Good can come from old or new.

There is a modern home in Crestwood on Villa between 17th and 18th. It's not as flashy as the SoSA homes, but it does show how modern homes can blend with those that are touching 90 years.

meh

Any idea on how much houses like these cost to build?

SoSA happened organically. The surrounding dilapidation allowed experimentation… there was no HOA to complain about creative design. The people that built there weren’t intending to spur a creative district. They wanted an inexpensive place to build what they wanted, with a view of downtown.

Now it has folded into something else altogether. Lots go for $75,000 plus. The recently proposed dwellings could cost between $130-$200/sq.ft. to build… maybe more.

meh

lol

Yeah I can certainly see the redundancy in the designs. At the same time, SoSA is pretty much the only platted area in OKC where you can build a modern style home. Your typical suburban HOA would flip as it deviates from the sort of French Country cookie cutter look that has dominated new neighborhoods in this area, and any historical intown neighborhood would balk and such a contrasting style (not to mention it would probably not pass any sort of HP committee that are over these areas).

Eh. I'm not so sure about that. IIRC, there are few restrictions in the covenents of my neighborhood for example, and none that would stop someone from building anything like that in SoSa. Don't think a person would have near the challenges with the design review committee like some of those in Soso had either. But yeah, as time has passed that has become more the norm to load up neighborhoods with restrictions.

SoSA happened organically. The surrounding dilapidation allowed experimentation… there was no HOA to complain about creative design. The people that built there weren’t intending to spur a creative district. They wanted an inexpensive place to build what they wanted, with a view of downtown.

Now it has folded into something else altogether. Lots go for $75,000 plus. The recently proposed dwellings could cost between $130-$200/sq.ft. to build… maybe more.
Good post.

I think time is an important factor, too.

But combined those things give a place a character of its own. Hopefully charming as opposed to macabre.

I am interested in how or even if something similar can occur in a new development.

As for cost I think there has to be some major change in how financing occurs. Maybe some combination of individual and collective equity arrangements but I haven't found much that is even being considered experimentally much less practical.

I was in Forest Park yesterday and was noticing relatively recent development, redevelopment and coincidentally, that it seemed like a ripe place for building similar non-traditional homes. Most homes are traditional style, but there are a couple of existing more "modern" attempts at something different in the mix, including an earth sheltered home and this one. (I have no idea what the restrictions are there.) South of NE 36th and close to I-35, very close-in though it still has that way out in the country feel.

Google streetview image:

http://imageshack.us/a/img571/9328/maxwellk.jpg

Actually you are right. There are many modern style homes there. And while most are from the 50's-80's, I think new construction of them would be welcome.

My grandparents and 2 uncles live in Forest Park. Its a really nice and underrated area. And there is some infill going on. In fact, my uncle just sold a lot to a gentlemen from Norman to build a new home. As a side note, there's quite a bit of modern designs off of Lincoln and 42nd in the Woodland Park Neighborhood.

Most people would never find these area due to the pervasive East-o-phobia most people have in OKC. However, I feel much safer in these areas than in SoSA. Not that SoSA is unsafe, but there are still a few flophouses nearby.

Actually you are right. There are many modern style homes there. And while most are from the 50's-80's, I think new construction of them would be welcome.

My grandparents and 2 uncles live in Forest Park. Its a really nice and underrated area. And there is some infill going on. In fact, my uncle just sold a lot to a gentlemen from Norman to build a new home. As a side note, there's quite a bit of modern designs off of Lincoln and 42nd in the Woodland Park Neighborhood.

Most people would never find these area due to the pervasive East-o-phobia most people have in OKC. However, I feel much safer in these areas than in SoSA. Not that SoSA is unsafe, but there are still a few flophouses nearby.

I don't know anyone who lives there but I've liked Forest Park area for decades. While I've seen parts of it decline as the homes have gotten older, I was surprised and happy when I looked around it yesterday to see there has been a fair amount of rebuilding, some tear downs with new houses and some rehabs.

OKC development will move across that east line at some point in time. If I were buying real estate to hold, I would be looking close-in Northeast. BTW...if you've never been past the gates at Lake Aluma, it's another gem on the "wrong" side of I-35.

I was in Forest Park yesterday and was noticing relatively recent development, redevelopment and coincidentally, that it seemed like a ripe place for building similar non-traditional homes. Most homes are traditional style, but there are a couple of existing more "modern" attempts at something different in the mix, including an earth sheltered home and this one. (I have no idea what the restrictions are there.) South of NE 36th and close to I-35, very close-in though it still has that way out in the country feel.

Google streetview image:

http://imageshack.us/a/img571/9328/maxwellk.jpg

This is some good friends of mine home. They bought it the spring of 2004. It was part way dilapidated, the west end had serious termite issues. The history is that it was designed by a local architect , whose office is just to the right of the picture, which they now use for a garage. The original owner/designer passed several years earlier and they bought it for a dance from his son. They put the metal roof on, plus the south side has glass from the one end to the other......it's pretty cool. I actually painted the majority of the insides for them.

Small city! It looked to me like it had recently had a lot of work done on it and might be an interesting place! That doesn't show up so much in the Google winter photo.

we might need a Forest Park thread but maybe it's supposed to be a secret!?!

This. So much this.

These concepts are cool and I really like the modern ness of the builds. But the location is weak.
I love the location. If I could find anything for rent in the area, I would move there. It is very close to my work.

Nice article in OKC.biz.

Say there are 18 projects under various stages of development:

okcBiz: News: Cottage care (http://okc.biz/oklahoma/article-6816-cottage-care.html)

I would totally build a house in SOSA if I weren't so happy with my current house. I think that property values will skyrocket once the downtown elementary school is completed. You're close to Midtown and downtown, the hill offers great views. I see no downside to this neighborhood.

Anyone know what the earth moving is at NE corner of 8th and Classen is? It appears they may be constructing another house on 8th and putting up a retaining wall. Also the 4 plex house on the NW corner 7th and Shartel burned down about a month ago.

A single family house is going in on 8th designed by Butzer Gardner.

Still waiting to hear the verdict on the 7th street fire. Probably arson by vagabond.


Anyone know what the earth moving is at NE corner of 8th and Classen is? It appears they may be constructing another house on 8th and putting up a retaining wall. Also the 4 plex house on the NW corner 7th and Shartel burned down about a month ago.

Also FYI Classen Glen HOA recently just passed an assessment to repaint the buildings a two-tone grey color scheme from the original white and pale blue that has since flaked. Some of the work has already started.ill try and post pics soon.

Couple new ones(I think) in the urban design agenda...

SIRE Public Access (http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/meeting.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&docid=53068)

828 NW 8 and, perhaps more interesting because it looks to be a commercial reuse; 605 NW 6.

Couple new ones(I think) in the urban design agenda...

SIRE Public Access (http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/meeting.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&docid=53068)

828 NW 8 and, perhaps more interesting because it looks to be a commercial reuse; 605 NW 6.

It looks like that agenda also includes taking the canopy off an old building in the plaza district, several buildings in the Asian district and along 23rd street. It looks like some changes are being proposed to the Guernsey restaurant behind Cuppies and Joe too.

Nm

Does anyone know of any lots for sale in or around the SOSA area, nothing is currently on MLS. I am looking to purchase in the next few months.

Does anyone know of any lots for sale in or around the SOSA area, nothing is currently on MLS. I am looking to purchase in the next few months.

The last time I was there a lot to the west of Valir had a homemade for sale sign on it. Just drive around the area and look for signs, as I think a lot haven't been on the multilist.

Best success I had was looking up the owners of vacant lots on the County Assessors Site and contacting the owner directly. A lot of the property in the area changes hands without it ever being publically listed for sale.

Best success I had was looking up the owners of vacant lots on the County Assessors Site and contacting the owner directly. A lot of the property in the area changes hands without it ever being publically listed for sale.

This was the approach my wife and I took to find a lot in the area. You will receive several "no" and "not now" statements and even more people simply won't reply. The key is to be patient, build a friendly relationship with the owner, and wait. I don't think there are any screaming deals to be had on 7th or 8th street between Francis and Dewey at this point, but 9th street between Shartel and Classen offers a lot of opportunity.

Any info on the d.build home going up on the corner near Classen. Looks very cool. I'm so glad the design looks to be different from what is next door- I love the modern feel of SoSA but I hope it doesn't end up being cookie-cutter modern- same materials, general lines, etc. if the entire area looks like one architect did it- this area will fail to be notable

Any info on the d.build home going up on the corner near Classen. Looks very cool. I'm so glad the design looks to be different from what is next door- I love the modern feel of SoSA but I hope it doesn't end up being cookie-cutter modern- same materials, general lines, etc. if the entire area looks like one architect did it- this area will fail to be notable

Ouch! lol guess you cant please everyone.

The Dbuild project was designed by Butzer Gardner Architects...should be a cool project and a nice addition to the area.

I re-read my previous post and it did not read the way that I had intended.

I love the house that is next door to the east of the house I was asking about - I think its fantastic and have even spent time admiring on the blog page that was created during its construction!

My point was to only say- I hope that architects who take on projects in SoSA continue to DESIGN and CREATE. It is a unique area and opportunity, I think each home needs to stand on its own with architectural integrity. If you just move a window and change one roofline and build your neighbors home again then you will go down the slippery slope of cookie-cutter…You can already start to point out which homes are done by the same architect. That should not be the case in my uninformed respectful opinion.