I don't know how much lots in SoSA tend to cost, because that can be a huge factor in what can be built at reasonable prices. I think, though, if people want under $200,000 homes in that neighborhood, they need to buy the lot themselves and find a builder who will build in their price range. Land available is probably too piecemeal to tempt a developer who can keep costs low by building multiple single family homes of similar construction.

Regarding the lots in SoSa - I believe you can still find some deals- $25,000 or less to me is a great deal for an infill lot. That is what builders in Edmond and Yukon and Moore are paying for those tiny lots in subdivisions with no trees, no view, and cookie cutter homes as far as the eye can see! At $25,000 per lot you could realistically build something in the $175-200,000 range and come out ahead.

I think you have a very valid point though. I would preface my previous comment with the LAST thing I would ever want to see is a standard set of floor plans thrown up in the beautiful diversified neighborhoods of NW OKC! I just do feel like there is a void in developer/builder interest in single family projects under the $200,000 mark. My background is in construction but because of the overwhelming bank issues of today's economy I took a corporate job in management - maybe they have all done the same.

I will say however that in order to make money you DO NOT have to build 500,000+ homes and you do not have to throw up 60 each year. There is a respectful way of building that really positively impacts the neighborhood your in and the customer who ends up purchasing the homes you have built with thought and care. I am not saying this doesn't exist in OKC - but I have not heard of too many builders who have that mindset.

Maybe I am wrong and they are all out of business. Maybe I am dumb in thinking that single family is the way that downtown/midtown/NW OKC should grow - I just feel like OKC is so spread out and there are still so many land options and vacant lots that when a buyer is coming to look at properties they are comparing these condo projects to getting yards for a lot less money - if they like that at all then they are going to lean the single family direction.

I will say that housing options of all kinds - condos, leased apartments, single family - in all price ranges under 200,000 - over 500,000 will be the only plan that offers truly long term growth for midtown and for downtown OKC. The housing has to be as diverse as the people who are considering making the move!

I would like to see mostly single family housing in SoSA as well. As I said, I think that people who want to live there, however, should probably take the plunge, buy a lot and find a builder, rather than waiting for a developer to have the same vision and price points. I've almost always found it's the best way to get what you want at the price you want, as long as you have the willpower to hold off on extras.

Does anyone know if there is a name for the area where the single family homes are built just north of Bricktown. There are a few SoSa style modern homes just a few blocks north of the Brownstones/Condo developments near Broadway Ext...I am curious about single family home lots over there and how the prices/options compare to SoSa.

Flatiron, more expensive, and I believe only 1 new modern home, which is home to the Spy.

Regarding the lots in SoSa - I believe you can still find some deals- $25,000 or less to me is a great deal for an infill lot. That is what builders in Edmond and Yukon and Moore are paying for those tiny lots in subdivisions with no trees, no view, and cookie cutter homes as far as the eye can see! At $25,000 per lot you could realistically build something in the $175-200,000 range and come out ahead.

I think you have a very valid point though. I would preface my previous comment with the LAST thing I would ever want to see is a standard set of floor plans thrown up in the beautiful diversified neighborhoods of NW OKC! I just do feel like there is a void in developer/builder interest in single family projects under the $200,000 mark. My background is in construction but because of the overwhelming bank issues of today's economy I took a corporate job in management - maybe they have all done the same.

I will say however that in order to make money you DO NOT have to build 500,000+ homes and you do not have to throw up 60 each year. There is a respectful way of building that really positively impacts the neighborhood your in and the customer who ends up purchasing the homes you have built with thought and care. I am not saying this doesn't exist in OKC - but I have not heard of too many builders who have that mindset.

Maybe I am wrong and they are all out of business. Maybe I am dumb in thinking that single family is the way that downtown/midtown/NW OKC should grow - I just feel like OKC is so spread out and there are still so many land options and vacant lots that when a buyer is coming to look at properties they are comparing these condo projects to getting yards for a lot less money - if they like that at all then they are going to lean the single family direction.

I will say that housing options of all kinds - condos, leased apartments, single family - in all price ranges under 200,000 - over 500,000 will be the only plan that offers truly long term growth for midtown and for downtown OKC. The housing has to be as diverse as the people who are considering making the move!

Most are well under $10K, however some are upwards of $25K. There i are at least two squatter property owners living in a dream wanting $200K plus for a lot. They will NEVER get it. This is OKC, not Boston.

Most are well under $10K, however some are upwards of $25K. There i are at least two squatter property owners living in a dream wanting $200K plus for a lot. They will NEVER get it. This is OKC, not Boston.

THANKS for the info metro! You are so right - If your info is correct SoSa seems priced appropriately for what it is "up and coming" in mid/downtown OKC! Flatiron would eventually be a fantastic location for single family homes but they are not going to go for those price points and not without a group of homeowners pulling for the area to improve into that!

The best part about SoSa in my opinion is the pioneering spirit that is already there! You see a truly architectural gem placed right next door to a dilapidated bungalow. Driving throughout this are you can FEEL change happening! On a personal note- the county jail is very close and so I am a bit worried about crime, but I live in a very nice part of NW OKC now and was recently broken into and they stole everything I had - so although it might be more convenient, it does not mean it doesn't happen EVERYWHERE!

Usually LESS crime right by the jail and the police station, it's just a PERCEPTION issue.

Yeah. A jail nearby shouldn't mean more crime. They make criminals stay INSIDE the jail.

There is a new home being proposed on the urban design commission's agenda: http://okc.gov/planning/planning_library/index.html

There is a new home being proposed on the urban design commission's agenda: http://okc.gov/planning/planning_library/index.html

...a very strange, retro style that breaks from the contemporary trend. Too bad...

I agree the style is a little strange, it's not bad, and looks MUCH better than a lot of the crap being allowed downtown and inner city. And a bigger bonus, it's infill of a vacant lot in a up and coming area, AND it looks like it's being built on a zero lot line with retail store frontage. This will be good for pedestrian traffic. We still have HUNDREDS of vacant lots that need filling in downtown. I'm with Kerry, let's not settle for subpar, but at some point we need to be realistic and accept infill with compromised standards (yet still slightly better than the past, but encouraging even better standards when possible). Once we have some mass density, then the nicer projects will come anyways.

Yeah. A jail nearby shouldn't mean more crime. They make criminals stay INSIDE the jail.

You're right and the criminals outside of the jail tend to want to stay as far away from it as possible.

Does anyone know what the residential setbacks are in OKC? Do they vary by addition? I am more concerned about the sides as opposed to front and back setbacks.

I am from Missouri and have only built homes there. I am kind of confused by the challenge of finding building restrictions in NW OKC, why do they hide these? I am looking at some SoSa lots and seeing how large the home footprint could be.

Does anyone know what the residential setbacks are in OKC? Do they vary by addition? I am more concerned about the sides as opposed to front and back setbacks.

Setbacks are dependent on zoning. Technically you can build to all property lines in SoSA, but the "Cottage District" overlay zoning requires general conformance to the front yard setbacks on your side of the block...

Different suburban zones have different setback requirements. The OKC Planning Department will be happy to educate you.

Thank you dwellsokc! I have found the OKC Planning Dept less than happy to educate, but I am sure that was just one bad experience. I am surprised that more of that information is not available on their website! That made acquisition of land and preliminary planning much easier!

If you poke around enough on the Planning website, you'll find a "Zoning Locator Map" that IDs specific zoning... then continue poking to find downloadable "City Ordinances," in which you'll find buried the required setbacks, FARs, and many more wonderful rules!

Anyone know of any new projects in this neighborhood? Just thinking we could revisit where SoSa is at and where it is headed. Is there a neighborhood group of any kind?

No there isn't. I tried to start one years ago with Dwells support, but I just didn't have the time.

There are a few new projects on the board: The Mode multifamily project at 9th & Shartel, and a private residence at 7th & Dewey… one is contemporary, the other a contrary retro design.

Although I personally prefer contemporary design, I promote design freedom… but first there has to be design. (I’d prefer not to see “builder” cottages or McMansions because there are plenty of other places where those are appropriate, not in SoSA.)

The City’s design guidelines COULD be crafted to encourage a contemporary or even experimental esthetic, but those crafters are not crafty enough… and a group of neighbors will have a group of differing preferences that would turn into guideline-mush.

We’ll know where SoSA is headed when it gets there.

Two additional home projects should start at 7th and Dewey within the next few months, from what I have heard.

The City’s design guidelines COULD be crafted to encourage a contemporary or even experimental esthetic, but those crafters are not crafty enough… and a group of neighbors will have a group of differing preferences that would turn into guideline-mush.

We’ll know where SoSA is headed when it gets there.

So now you want our government to start telling people where they have to live if they want a certain type of aesthetic/size of home? This sounds very much like central social planning or the city as a developer. I think I prefer organic mix and choice. Homogeneous neighborhoods may well develop if there is enough demand for it and a private developer or sets of developers will collaborate. However, we tend to object to planned developments here.

Most are well under $10K, however some are upwards of $25K. There i are at least two squatter property owners living in a dream wanting $200K plus for a lot. They will NEVER get it. This is OKC, not Boston.

Really? When I looked at them this time in 2010, they were primarily bought up by local architects for around 12k, but now listed at 60k. And...you have to use the seller of the lot as your architect/contractor.

I'd look at buying one today for 10k. But I'd pick my architect and builder.

Opinion time--My reading of what's going on or has gone on is that there are basically two primary architects driving this train and that they seem to disagree on principle. I've been advised to "look elsewhere" by several folks. On the other hand, I've heard that it's a great neighborly 'hood as well. I think there was a "rush" on the lots over the past 3 or 4 years, but it's resulted in a holding pattern as I personally don't believe that most folks are willing to spend 500+ k for these type of homes on these smallish lots and be handcuffed to whatever someone else deems as "appropriate". The city ordinance allows for considerably more latitude than the designs currently seen.

It's a little frustrating knowing that I could buy and build a home in this area immediately, but am unwilling to get fleeced into buying a lot that sold for 10 or 12k and trying to be flipped for 60k and even then be tied to a specific arch/contactor. I'm all for people speculating and making a buck, but 12k to 60k is unreasonable and frankly, insulting.

As I've heard said before, it takes one with more money than good sense. As appealing as this development could be, I just can't take leave of good decision making.

Prove me wrong.

ThePlainsmen, I own property in the area. If you're talking about a lot on the market ready to go,usually owned by Randy Floyd, Brian Fitzsimmons (two of the well renowned architects) then yes it can be expensive, but if you do your own finding and negotiating you can still find a reasonable lot. There are a few spec owners who've owned them forever and are basically squatters and don't know the current dynamics of the current economy. As I mentioned, one of them is asking $250K for the small lot on the SE corner of 7th and Dewey, COMPLETELY realistic. We all know who the 2 big players are in SoSA, Fitzsimmons and Floyd, no need hiding that fact and yes Randy is the traditionalist and Brian is the modernist.

We all know who the 2 big players are in SoSA, Fitzsimmons and Floyd, no need hiding that fact and yes Randy is the traditionalist and Brian is the modernist.

I'd hardly call randy a traditionalist. The peoples residence in the Cottage District and her sister's house in Edgemere demonstrate that. However, her views towards setbacks and some other details are quite different from D Wells and Fitzsimmons.

O
Really? When I looked at them this time in 2010, they were primarily bought up by local architects for around 12k, but now listed at 60k. And...you have to use the seller of the lot as your architect/contractor.I
I'd look at buying one today for 10k. But I'd pick my architect and builder.

Opinion time--My reading of what's going on or has gone on is that there are basically two primary architects driving this train and that they seem to disagree on principle. I've been advised to "look elsewhere" by several folks. On the other hand, I've heard that it's a great neighborly 'hood as well. I think there was a "rush" on the lots over the past 3 or 4 years, but it's resulted in a holding pattern as I personally don't believe that most folks are willing to spend 500+ k for these type of homes on these smallish lots and be handcuffed to whatever someone else deems as "appropriate". The city ordinance allows for considerably more latitude than the designs currently seen.

It's a little frustrating knowing that I could buy and build a home in this area immediately, but am unwilling to get fleeced into buying a lot that sold for 10 or 12k and trying to be flipped for 60k and even then be tied to a specific arch/contactor. I'm all for people speculating and making a buck, but 12k to 60k is unreasonable and frankly, insulting.

As I've heard said before, it takes one with more money than good sense. As appealing as this development could be, I just can't take leave of good decision making.

Prove me wrong.

Totally agree.

So now you want our government to start telling people where they have to live if they want a certain type of aesthetic/size of home?

This would not be the "start" of it. In most cases you can not build what you want however you want in any neighborhood. I am sure there is something you would not want built next door to you.

--My reading of what's going on or has gone on is that there are basically two primary architects driving this train and that they seem to disagree on principle. I've been advised to "look elsewhere" by several folks. On the other hand, I've heard that it's a great neighborly 'hood as well. I think there was a "rush" on the lots over the past 3 or 4 years, but it's resulted in a holding pattern as I personally don't believe that most folks are willing to spend 500+ k for these type of homes on these smallish lots and be handcuffed to whatever someone else deems as "appropriate". The city ordinance allows for considerably more latitude than the designs currently seen.

You're right. It's sad that holding lots hostage (whether from greed of money or design) is obstructing people from contributing to SoSA's growth. I know that one particular squatter has quipped that their sacred lot will not be sold for anything short of a $1M house... I call that design fascism (or maybe just being out of touch with reality).

With these attitudes, SoSA risks being leap-frogged by other neighborhoods, and left forever with missing teeth and stunted density... A shameful waste of potential.

You're right. It's sad that holding lots hostage (whether from greed of money or design) is obstructing people from contributing to SoSA's growth. I know that one particular squatter has quipped that their sacred lot will not be sold for anything short of a $1M house... I call that design fascism (or maybe just being out of touch with reality).

With these attitudes, SoSA risks being leap-frogged by other neighborhoods, and left forever with missing teeth and stunted density... A shameful waste of potential.

This is going to keep happening everywhere, whether it be Bricktown or SoSA, just because per sq ft mol real estate values in OKC are so low. It's going to make the economics of quality development in general very difficult.

For what it's worth, I own land there. I'm not greedy, but looking for like minded people to build a building containing three to four flats with a small "yard" for pets and garden. Feel free to hit me up. First public overture.

And also, the views are spectacular...

At the end of this year I am going to get really serious about finding a lot in the $15-20,000 range and building a single family home for myself- I have saved and have spent every bonus dollar/weekend fixing up my current fixer upper to gain equity.

So my question is if the big players are Floyd and Fitzgerald then which one of these architects are more likely to work on smaller scale projects (such as something in the $200,000 neighborhood), either?! Would I be better off trying to find another arch/builder? I love having someone who shares my style and also an interest in the area that I like but from what I am hearing $1M and up is NOT going to apply to me.

Branson Young, David Wanzer, Kenneth Fitzsimmons (Brian's Brother), and Sam Gresham are all familar with innercity projects on a budget. It depends on the style you like. But there are other options than the SOSA invested architects.

Randy Floyd and Brian Fitzsimmons have simply established themselves well in both the redevelopment record and the neighborly one as well. But it doesn't mean they "own" the entire area.

Thanks Urban Pioneer! I am spending today researching the above names that you mentioned. My style is the Hook Residence by Randy Floyd but it is way out of my price range. I also like the personal home that Branson Young did in the SoSA area a great deal!

For clarity, Fitzsimmons has designed and built two houses in SOSA, one personal, one for a client. Neither cost anything near the million dollar mark, nor the half million dollar mark for that matter, land and fees included.

He does have one lot for sale in the area, BUT there are NOT any so called design strings attached.

Bella do you happen to know where the lot is? I drove through SoSA today looking for signs. No luck really.

[QUOTE=MidCenturyModOKC;485035]At the end of this year I am going to get really serious about finding a lot in the $15-20,000 range and building a single family home for myself- I have saved and have spent every bonus dollar/weekend fixing up my current fixer upper to gain equity.QUOTE]

I don't think there will be any 25ft lots in SoSa for less than 35m to 40m. I fact from what I have heard that would be a very good price; if there are any.

There was a lot next to the Valir Hospital that I thought was under$15,000 as well as one on 8th or 9th near Classen that was about that price, on the south side of the street.

Bella do you happen to know where the lot is? I drove through SoSA today looking for signs. No luck really.

Its listed under Pat Slack Realty. It may be shortly perceived off of the market, but is being relisted.

I agree the style is a little strange, it's not bad, and looks MUCH better than a lot of the crap being allowed downtown and inner city. And a bigger bonus, it's infill of a vacant lot in a up and coming area, AND it looks like it's being built on a zero lot line with retail store frontage. This will be good for pedestrian traffic. We still have HUNDREDS of vacant lots that need filling in downtown. I'm with Kerry, let's not settle for subpar, but at some point we need to be realistic and accept infill with compromised standards (yet still slightly better than the past, but encouraging even better standards when possible). Once we have some mass density, then the nicer projects will come anyways.

I agree. I suppose its better than nothing. But I would have liked it to fit with the fabric that is being created by the newer construction in the area rather than attempting to be something its not.

Thanks Urban Pioneer! I am spending today researching the above names that you mentioned. My style is the Hook Residence by Randy Floyd but it is way out of my price range. I also like the personal home that Branson Young did in the SoSA area a great deal!

Thanks!! Still very much a work in progress but we are chipping away at it.

523 NW 7th $65,000 mls# 461291
1008 N. Francis Ave. $20,000 mls#466816
Theres the lot that Bella referred to that is East of Francis on the South side of NW 8th Street, theres a lot to the west of us on the NE corner of Classen and NW 8th that has a for sale sign on it for REX realty 816-7115

There are several properties in the area that are either vacant or have dilapidated structures on them that would be terrific to develop. I would suggest finding a property that you are interested in, look up the owner with the county assessor and contact them with an offer.

Thanks Urban Pioneer! I am spending today researching the above names that you mentioned. My style is the Hook Residence by Randy Floyd but it is way out of my price range. I also like the personal home that Branson Young did in the SoSA area a great deal!

If you want to keep your cost down - and I mean way down - trying building your home out of shipping containers. I just read an article on it the other day but I can't remember where. The cost compared to a regular home was much lower. They don't look like shipping containers when they are done (unless you want them to).

Wow! I love the second picture! I have always wanted a pool!

Wow! I love the second picture! I have always wanted a pool!

Go three stories and rent out the 3rd floor and you can afford the pool.

http://weburbanist.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/26-atlanta-shipping-container-house.jpg

I love those. There's a show on MTV called Extreme Cribs, it's actually cool it highlights unusual architecture, and they've featured several nice looking container houses recently.

I wish I could remember where I read the article the other day about these. They had a picture of one of homes and you couldn't even tell it was built from 6 containers. It had a standard roof, front porch, and siding.

Each shipping container cost between $1,500 and $3,000 so even at the max price you are looking at $18,000 for 1,920 sq feet of living space (using six 40' containers). Of course that isn't the final price because you still have to finish them out but it isn't a bad start.

http://www.containersnow.com/

I do love all of the alternative building ideas that have surfaced in recent years! My real concern is working with local OKC contractors who can do the finish work on a project like that. I see many potential problems arising!

Some of the container project can turn out very nice. I'm afraid that some are slums waiting to happen.

Here's a cool ISBU loft project in Utah.
http://renaissanceronin.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/cclofts_utah.jpg

Would definitely not survive the quakenado nonetheless...

Would definitely not survive the quakenado nonetheless...

These containers are stacked 10 high on cargo ships going through the open ocean. They will survive an earthqauke easily. They are only help together by pins on a cargo ship but in a house they are welded together.

http://evosoulselect.com/review/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/ShippingContainerSFBay.jpg

http://followthecontainer.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/screensnapz10.jpg

He said quakenado, not earthquake. LOL

He said quakenado, not earthquake. LOL

They will survive the tornado also. All the glass might not but the steel structure will.

They will survive the tornado also. All the glass might not but the steel structure will.

LOL just nevermind. Thanks for all your facts though. :Smiley199

Sure they may be able to survive a tornado or an earth quake but there's no way they could survive a quakenado or whatever it's called. No way. That is the mother of all mother natures fury. It's Big

I know this is NOT a forum for alternative building ideas. But many of the people who are interested in SoSA are also interested in modern construction/design, and I have been looking for a lot in SoSA...So I post the question...Has anyone ever seen the modern homes made out of standard commercial steel buildings (the kind used for large warehouses)? I think that the cost alone makes them very attractive, normally $25000 or less for approx 2000 sq feet, but I think with the right designer you could really make something special! Thoughts?

What about energy efficiency?!?! Do they keep in cold/hot air well?

Well from what I have read some are qualifying for LEED certification! From the factory the panels can have R40 insulation value! I won't build anything that isn't green!

I know this is NOT a forum for alternative building ideas. But many of the people who are interested in SoSA are also interested in modern construction/design, and I have been looking for a lot in SoSA...So I post the question...Has anyone ever seen the modern homes made out of standard commercial steel buildings (the kind used for large warehouses)? I think that the cost alone makes them very attractive, normally $25000 or less for approx 2000 sq feet, but I think with the right designer you could really make something special! Thoughts?

There must be a reason standard steel buildings aren't used for residential. I checked out General Steel Corporation and they make steel buildings for everything except residential.

http://www.generalsteelcorporation.com/general_steel_buildings.htm

I know this isn't exactly what you're talking about but you reminded me of this condominium near where my brother lives in LA. You may not be able to tell too clearly from the pic but it has metal siding all over the building.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=34.083917,-118.373152&spn=0.000002,0.0006&t=h&z=21&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=34.083917,-118.373152&panoid=ebOFphcaNI4PiG4KM5RKtw&cbp=12,50.01,,0,4.42

There must be a reason standard steel buildings aren't used for residential. I checked out General Steel Corporation and they make steel buildings for everything except residential.

http://www.generalsteelcorporation.com/general_steel_buildings.htm

From what I am reading it is becoming more common everyday. The restriction of having to design something that is square and rectangle and has very few lines to it I think keeps it from mainstream...But I would say that modern designed homes in general are not built as frequently. The big steel companies, and there are tons, mention residential but as far as focus on it I don't think they do because thats not way keeps the lights on. Obviously these are always going to be used for garages and shops and commercial but I think it has some interesting potential.

http://media22.onsugar.com/files/2011/06/26/3/1578/15782066/1fd494fca8138a95_Steel_Building_Home_Designs_C.pre view.jpg